2ndlook

4000 Years – Hittites & Gandhiji

Posted in British Raj, Desert Bloc, History, India by Anuraag Sanghi on January 13, 2008

Separated by 4000 years, what could possibly be common between Gandhiji (2000 years after Christ) and Hittites (2000 years before Christ) – the pre-Greek Indians in the Middle East? Both, the Hittites and Gandhiji, rejected Hammurabi’s “eye-for-an-eye” legal thinking and system – 4000 years apart.

Who Was Hammurabi

Western historians glorified Hammurabi as the world’s first law giver – and Occidental-Levantine (including the Shariat) laws are based on Hammurabi’s legal code of “an eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth”. Hammurabi’s laws and edicts were retributive, vengeful and punishment oriented. The focus of Hammurabi’s legal system is to give a ‘fitting’ counter punishment for a defined offense. Roman law calls this lex talionis and the Old Testament advocates an eye for an eye“, (Hebrew: עין תחת עין‎) is a quotation from Exodus 21:23–27.

Results & ConsequencesSiege Mentality

These laws created a system of revenge, fueds and vendettas. The result – a fractured Europe, a rampant history of genocide, a fueding Middle East.

The largest prison population in the world is USA, currently at 2 million. The US has more people in prison than the totalitarian regimes of Russia or China. It also has one of the highest crime rates in the world is also USA. Is there a causal link between the Hammurabic legal systems and the crime it seems to engender.

Massacre & Slavery

This is also the same system that has created, supported, protected the premier slave systems of the world. It is also the same system with a singular record for blood baths and massacres in the history of mankind. This is region and system that gave rise to the three slave religions, Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

The three ‘desert religions’, gained their first converts from slaves, but continued with slavery till the 20th century. The 3 ‘desert religions’ instead of reforming slave societies, just enabled the transfer of slave titles. Freedom meant old slaves became the new slave masters.

Gandhiji’s famous position was “an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind” when asked about the Hammurabi’s “eye for an eye” kind of justice.

The Hittite Legal System

The alternate system in that era, 4000 years ago, was the Hittite legal system. We get an insight into the Hittite legal system from (more than) 10,000 clay seals and tablets at Boghaz-koi, unearthed in 1907-08 by Makridi Bey and Hugo Winckler and deciphered by Bedrich Hrozny during 1910-1921. These tablets and seals reveal the legal minds of the Hittites. Hittite law, different from Hammurabi laws, was based on amelioration of the effect of crime and driven less by fear of death and punishment.

The Hittites, Mittanis and Elamites (using Indo-Dravidian languages) were Indo Aryans that dominated Asia from Indian borders to European borders till 500 BC. Kassite, the other major ruling clan in Levant’s geography (apart from the Egyptians) heavily adopted Indo Aryan cultural motifs.

Hammurabi’s main rival in the Middle East arena was Rama-Sin of Larsa (ruler of Larsa) who ruled for 60 years. Raim Sin (1753?-1693? BC) of Larsa, in Sumer (modern Iraq), ruled over Sumer, Elam – present-day Iraq, Iran and Afghanistan. Sin is the Assyrian moon goddess (in modern Indian languages, Ram-Sin will be translated to Ramachandra). Ram-Sin assumed the title of ‘king of all lands’, blessed by Goddess ‘Nin Makh’ at ‘Opis’, his second capital in Babylonia. Ram-Sin fought for a long time an inconclusive war with Hammurabi (speculatively identified as ‘Ravana’ of the Indus seals). Ram-Sin, king of Babylonia possibly, was finally able to defeat Hammurabi in the joint action with the chief of Subartu, Hurrian and Mitanni kings. Hammurabi was killed in the fight, speculatively suggested by one of the Indus seals.

Gandhiji – And Hittites?

4000 years later, Gandhiji, described the western civilisation as a “good idea“. Gandhiji’s knowledge of Hittite legal thought would have been (probably close to) zero as the decipherment of Boghazkoi and other Hittite texts was ongoing and incomplete. Elaborate analysis and the commentary on Hittites and Boghazkoi came after Gandhiji’s death.

The Hittite legal revolution 4000 years ago plays out even today.

Go West, young man?

But, modern Indian law makers and jurists look to the West for getting legal ideas. Under the garb of modernisation, Indian law is becoming negative. Apart from not taking up the challenge of repealing colonial laws, the Indian Government has accepted the colonial legal system (nearly) in toto.

The Odious Section 498

Possibly the best example of post-colonial, western-patterned law is the Section 498. A retributive, revengeful law (patterned on western legal models) is now undermining the very structure of Indian society – marriage. Section 498 has has taken away marriages from the social domain into the legal sphere. From being contributory, accommodative, religious and life long, Indian marriage system is becoming extractive, adversarial, contractual, legal and short term. Some in the West do see the value in the Indian system – but India seems to think that West is a way out!

On September 5th, 2008, eight months after this post, the Times Of India reported that the Indian Government may review the section 498 law. The report talked about how

“For long, voices raised against the anti-dowry act were dismissed as those belonging to men desperately trying to retain their dominance over women. But now, an increasing number of women complaining against misuse of the act has forced the women and child development (WCD) ministry to initiate a review of the controversial legislation.

The government’s turnaround comes after an increasing number of complaints came from women themselves — mothers-in-law and sisters-in-law who ironically have fallen victim to the misuse of the two laws.

The statistics are telling. Raksha, an NGO working on marital harmony and child welfare, has analysed figures by the National Crime Records Bureau to deduce that 1.2 lakh women have been falsely implicated under 498A.

‘‘Every 21 minutes, an innocent woman is being arrested. While the number of arrests under 498A are increasing every year, what is not being considered is that the conviction rate in these cases is barely 2%,’’ Anupama Singh, Raksha spokesperson said.

The Indian Legal Alternative

Indian law can take inspiration from the Hittites of 4000 years and offer an alternate model to the world. A Gandhian model. The rejection of Hammurabi’s legal system by the Hittites and Gandhiji, separated by 4000 years, is not a co-incidence. Gandhiji’s response, separated by 4000 years from the Hittites, demonstrate the Indian continuity in thought and action.

The Khilafat Movement

Interestingly, also 4000 years later, when rulers of (the modern day Hittite kingdom in) Turkey, the Ottoman Turks, were being unseated from their thrones, by the British after WW1, it was Gandhiji who objected to the end of the Caliphate- and started the Khilafat Movement. India, itself a colony, took lead on an international issue and made its presence felt.

This break up of the Ottoman rule after WW1, and the installation of puppet regimes, regressed Islamic societies by centuries – at a great cost of millions of lives.

PS – If all else fails, there is the path of political assassination. A few days ago, from Washington, USA, someone Googled to ask “why britishers didn’t kill gandhi“. Perhaps, that was one moment in history, when the political leaders of the Anglo Saxon Bloc were momentarily humanised.
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36 Responses

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  1. Saurav Basu said, on February 8, 2009 at 3:32 pm

    This break up of the Ottoman rule after WW1, and the installation of puppet regimes, regressed Islamic societies by centuries – at a great cost of millions of lives.

    ->> There are some gems in this blog but also a lot of hogwash! Khilafat movement was what according to M Mujeeb made Indian Muslims feel part of one large Islamic brotherhood through the Ali brothers. The ottoman empire was responsible for an armenian genocide. They were so backward, that they couldnt even exploit the printing press lest it defiled Allah’s sacred scripture. Today, Turkey is a rare majority Muslim state with a secular constitution, thanks to the great Kemal Ataruk. Gandhi’s political opportunism was in the words of R C Majumdar nothing short of “anti-national”

  2. Anuraag Sanghi said, on February 8, 2009 at 4:18 pm

    Khilafat movement was what according to M Mujeeb made Indian Muslims feel part of one large Islamic brotherhood through the Ali brothers.

    The myth of the Islamic Brotherhood by now should have been well and truly laid to rest. After the 1857 backlash, the British Raj decided that interference in religion was an explosive idea – and changed their policy. Divide et impera became the official policy.

    Christianity was replaced by a ‘benign’, ‘enlightened’ Raj – which was ‘progressive’, ‘liberal’, bringing ‘modernism’ to the ‘backward’ ‘natives’. To counter the Deoband School, they gave birth to Wahabbism – which is now the scourge of the world.

    The Indian Muslim, has been, like the Rest of Indians, a broad minded, free-minded person. It is the 2nd /3rd largest Muslim population in the world – and has at least 7 major sects – Shias, Sunnis, Bohris, Ismailis, Aga Khanis, Ahmaddiyas, Dawoodi Bohras. One of them celebrates Diwali – and starts their new year by invoking Islamic conventions instead of Lakshmi.

    The fear of Islamic Brotherhood is Western paranoia – based on their own past of genocides.

    The ottoman empire was responsible for an armenian genocide.

    Sure thing. After all, they are part of the Desert Bloc. Is it surprising?

    Today, Turkey is a rare majority Muslim state with a secular constitution, thanks to the great Kemal Ataruk.

    Kemal Ataturk’s perception of his country and people was so poor – that it was important for Turkey, to change even their dress – as per Ataturk. How much more bankrupt can a leader be? This is what the Shiv Sena, Raj Thackeray and Rame Sene are suggesting.

    I cannot see how a State where a ‘good idea’ is thrust down peoples throat can be called a success.

    Gandhi’s political opportunism was in the words of R C Majumdar nothing short of “anti-national”

    Are you suggesting that we pay attention to a brown colonial hack to guage Gandhiji’s relevance?

  3. galeo rhinus said, on February 9, 2009 at 9:32 pm

    Anuraag – Ataturk’s comparison to Shiv Sena et al is flawed… Ataturk was supposedly a “progressive” influence on Islam… as Nehru was considered to be a “progressive” influence on Hinduism. Nehru’s job was to subvert Indic polity by embedding western polity as a goal for “decadent” societies such as India. Shiv Sena and Raj Thackeray are demagogues – nothing more really, but pretend to defend Indic values – when in reality they don’t.

    Let’s not confuse the two.

    Saurav – Majumdar is a brown sahib who remained loyal to the English narrative until his death. Regardless of Gandhi’s real relevance – Majumdar is called the “greatest indian historian” … yet in the legacy of the English narratives he perpetually resorted to name calling… regards to 1857 – he referred to Indian leaders with the same venom… Nana Saheb was the son of a “worthless wicked ex-peshwa”… bahadur shah was a “dotard”… Indian civilians who “troubled” the English were the “riff raff”…

    …let’s not quote Majumdar who participated in manufacturing this venom until he died … once can describe Majumdar using his own “scholarly” words as a “worthless and wicked dotard” slinging poison at Indian history masquerading as a historian…

  4. Anuraag Sanghi said, on February 10, 2009 at 12:22 pm

    The only and a major difference difference between Ataturk and Nehru, was the means.

    Nehru used tax payers money and persuasion to influence Indians to become more ‘progressive’. Ataturk dragged Turkey, kicking and screaming to the Western altar.

    After Nehru, India still had a chance to reclaim its Indic character. After Ataturk, Turkey was lost – forever.

    That is all.

    Shiv Sena and Raj Thackeray are demagogues – nothing more really, but pretend to defend Indic values – when in reality they don’t.

    Agree – but Ataturk was no less. His demagogy was that of the ‘defeated’ Turkey.

  5. galeo rhinus said, on February 11, 2009 at 1:48 am

    I cannot let you get Nehru off the hook so easily… remember 1857 proved that the leaders were able to get popular support despite the genocide unleashed because the English overtly were attacking personal freedom… after 1857 – it was all be surreptitious ways to attack the Indic identity…

    …Nehru did what he did – simply because if he had even attempted to do what Ataturk did – he would’ve been long gone…

    …let’s not explicitly or implicitly credit Nehru for what he could not do…

    Remember that in 1977 – Congress won ZERO seats when Sanjay Gandhi unleashed his population control campaign…

    I can assure you that if Nehru had attempted Ataturk’s methods his political demise would have preceded his real one…

    Let’s not euphemize Nehru’s deviousness to attack the Indic identity as using “tax payers money and PERSUASION”…

  6. galeo rhinus said, on February 11, 2009 at 4:58 am

    errata on previous post – ZERO seats in UP

  7. Anuraag Sanghi said, on February 11, 2009 at 7:10 am

    Valid point … though speculative. There is much that Nehru did,for which can be faulted. But I think the context of Post WW2 world, will make us a little more balanced – and sympathetic.

  8. David said, on September 24, 2009 at 5:50 pm

    You seem to harbor some hatred towards the 3 desert religions because you sound excessively like those hindu-fundamentalists .

    Is Christianity a slave religion ?

    It is common knowledge (even here in India) that Gandhi’s ahimsa was inspired from the bible .

    This verse in particular

    Bible quote
    Matthew chapter 5: verses 38 to 45-
    “ You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,’ but I say to you, do not resist him who is evil but whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also, and if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. And whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘ You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy,’ but I say to you , love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in Heaven, for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and unrighteous.” [ This teaching , a portion of Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount, would have strongly influenced Martin Luther King’s approach to bringing change through nonviolent means.]

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Gandhi,+Mohandas+Karamchand

    Hittite law was far more humane than Hammurabi code of justice , but to say that its more non-violent than preachings of Christ is a joke .

    ———————————————————————–
    Hittite rule number 197 (The Code of the Nesilim)

    If a man rape a woman in the mountain, it is the man’s wrong, he shall die. But if he rape her in the house, it is the woman’s fault, the woman shall die. If the husband find them and then kill them, there is no punishing the husband.

    ————————————————————————-
    And no hammurabi’s code is not the basis for Koran ,bible and the talmud .You have obviously read none of them .

    And before you jump to conclusions again i am an Indian and Christian . As there is freedom of language and culture in india i dont see why there should’nt be the freedom to follow your own choice of religion .

  9. Anuraag Sanghi said, on September 25, 2009 at 6:42 am

    You seem to harbor some hatred towards the 3 desert religions because you sound excessively like those hindu-fundamentalists .

    To start with, of course, you are getting defeatist. Any one can get away from any meaningful debate by alleging ‘Hindu Fundamentalism’. If it is religion that you want to discuss, I, at least, am NOT discussing religion at all.

    Even if you are NOT a Christian Fundamentalist!

    Is Christianity a slave religion ?

    Are you suggesting that the Vatican did not support slavery? Are you ignoring the many Councils (of Gangra, for instance) where the Church explicitly supported slavery!

    It is common knowledge (even here in India) that Gandhi’s ahimsa was inspired from the bible .

    This verse in particular

    Bible quote
    Matthew chapter 5: verses 38 to 45-
    “ You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth,’ but I say to you, do not resist him who is evil but whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also, and if anyone wants to sue you and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. And whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two. Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you. You have heard that it was said, ‘ You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy,’ but I say to you , love your enemy and pray for those who persecute you in order that you may be sons of your Father who is in Heaven, for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and unrighteous.” [ This teaching , a portion of Jesus’s Sermon on the Mount, would have strongly influenced Martin Luther King’s approach to bringing change through nonviolent means.]

    Very interesting! Another person commented the other day that Gandhiji took his inpiration from Prophet Muhammed!

    I am quite happy (for you and MK Gandhi) if he found a pasasage in the Bible to take inpiration from! What exactly is your point!

    If it is common knowledge, as you suggest and claim, the 2ndlook blog has no place for it. 2ndlook blog is for things that people do not generally know about!

    Hittite law was far more humane than Hammurabi code of justice , but to say that its more non-violent than preachings of Christ is a joke .

    Have I said anything about the teachings of Christ in anyone place! Have I invoked Jesus anywhere in the post? Have I talked about non-violence at all? I have not used the word violence or non-violence even once in my post!

    Why are you inserting your own beliefs, conclusions – and imputing them to be mine?

    Where have I said anything about Hittites being non-violent? They were fierce and skillful warriors – especially against the Slave Kingdoms of that time. You can check this out with the Egyptian Pharoahs.

    Hittite rule number 197 (The Code of the Nesilim)

    If a man rape a woman in the mountain, it is the man’s wrong, he shall die. But if he rape her in the house, it is the woman’s fault, the woman shall die. If the husband find them and then kill them, there is no punishing the husband.

    ————————————————————————-
    And no hammurabi’s code is not the basis for Koran ,bible and the talmud .You have obviously read none of them .

    – Your ideas and theory springs from a peculiar school of Western propaganda which is called comparative theology. The basic mechanism of this ‘academic discipline’ is to pick up a sentence (from the Bible, Koran, Old Testament, Gita, Vedas, et al) and prove anything. This is nothing but religious propaganda.

    – As for your bit about Hittite Law, you should look at more data (some are linked in the post) before you tilt at these windmills. One sentence out of the nearly 100,000 clay tablets, gives no credibility or value to your statement.

    – Even in ‘modern’ legal systems there are laws which exist in statute books but never implemented – a distinguishing feature of the Desert Bloc. So, if you take one sentence, to discredit the Hittites, you are using blunt and over-used weapons.

    – With regards to “obviously read none of them” – Have I stated or even implied anywhere that I have studied any or all the religious texts in the world? So, why are you jumping to conclusions?

    And before you jump to conclusions again i am an Indian and Christian .

    Why are you assuming that I will conclude anything else – except what you say about yourself. I dont see the relevance of this at all. Maybe you can enlighten my dark mind on this statement.

    As there is freedom of language and culture in india i dont see why there should’nt be the freedom to follow your own choice of religion .

    Where am I implying any curbs on culture, linguistic and /or religious freedom?

    You are right, in India, dominated by ‘Hindus’, there is freedom to follow any religion, culture or language! Which unfortunately is not true in most countries governed by the Desert Bloc! Look at the curbs on Muslim faith in the West – or the curbs on Hindus in Islamic countries!

    As for your bit about being Indian (meaning a passport holder) apparently has taught you nothing about Indic values. If it is history, that you want to discuss, then you have only have to look at the annihilation of peoples, faiths and belief systems in the areas governed by the Desert Bloc to debunk your ideas. The only areas which have been resist this annihilation were the Africans and Indians.

  10. David said, on September 25, 2009 at 12:53 pm

    1. The quote was ‘for your information’ . There are many (mainstream) sources in the internet which are proof to what i have said about Gandhi being inspired (link in previous comment) by the bible . You can always check the internet (google) , it being a recent event is well documented by both Indian and non-Indian historians . I have nothing to prove .

    2. [quote]If it is history, that you want to discuss, then you have only have to look at the annihilation of peoples, faiths and belief systems in the areas governed by the Desert Bloc to debunk your ideas. The only areas which have been resist this annihilation were the Africans and Indians.[/quote]

    Very wrong …… Egyptian dynasty owning slaves is well documented . you yourself have stated so in other posts .

    Hebrews who principally followed the Jewish religion never owned slaves or a significant kingdom for that matter and for the most part were slaves themselves . modern Israel is the fruit of American politics and their atrocities in gaza is no worse than the Gujarat,Orissa pogroms in India .

    It is also well known that Hittites owned slaves
    A book about Hittite rules for slaves

    http://books.google.co.in/books?id=-4OHxYNRdhAC&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=did+Hittite+own+slaves&source=bl&ots=EJOEYJrZvY&sig=NoAVhXCwJw_WZAPUHXw8QggR880&hl=en&ei=5re8SvOOLIvU6gPGnrWdCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=did%20Hittite%20own%20slaves&f=false

    Archimedian Persian empire the descendants of Elamites and Medes et al(culturally) used slaves .Islam was yet to be born at that time .

    slave societies of Aztecs,Incas etc

    Caste system proof of slave system in ancient India (Shudras/Dalits in particular) . A very popular social practice .

    6. Quick to judge eh? You know what they say ,” When you point at somebody ,your own 3 fingers point back at you ”

    7. I did … your concept of “Greater India” is funny . Maybe a separate discussion on that later .

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on September 25, 2009 at 7:42 pm

      1. The quote was ‘for your information’ . There are many (mainstream) sources in the internet which are proof to what i have said about Gandhi being inspired (link in previous comment) by the bible . You can always check the internet (google) , it being a recent event is well documented by both Indian and non-Indian historians . I have nothing to prove .

      I am grateful for this information, which you say is well known, a part of the mainstream media and I can get easily on Google!

      2. [quote]If it is history, that you want to discuss, then you have only have to look at the annihilation of peoples, faiths and belief systems in the areas governed by the Desert Bloc to debunk your ideas. The only areas which have been resist this annihilation were the Africans and Indians.[/quote]

      Very wrong …… Egyptian dynasty owning slaves is well documented . you yourself have stated so in other posts .

      What is wrong? Is it my English or your comprehension?

      I am talking about “annihilation of peoples, faiths and belief systems in the areas governed by the Desert Bloc” and your response is Egyptians were slave owners!

      Hebrews who principally followed the Jewish religion never owned slaves or a significant kingdom for that matter and for the most part were slaves themselves .

      I dont believe you at all! But, maybe if you can tell this to the African Americans who were traded by Jewish slave traders!

      They might believe you!!

      modern Israel is the fruit of American politics and their atrocities in gaza is no worse than the Gujarat,Orissa pogroms in India.

      Maybe you have lived through a pogrom to know what it is.

      Which is why both Islaimic and Christain believers in India are increasing, whereas ‘non-believers’ in Desert Bloc have decreased to extinction!

      Are you not contradicting yourselves? On one hand you talking of religious freedom in India – and the other hand you are talking of pogroms!

      It is also well known that Hittites owned slaves
      A book about Hittite rules for slaves

      http://books.google.co.in/books?id=-4OHxYNRdhAC&pg=PA122&lpg=PA122&dq=did+Hittite+own+slaves&source=bl&ots=EJOEYJrZvY&sig=NoAVhXCwJw_WZAPUHXw8QggR880&hl=en&ei=5re8SvOOLIvU6gPGnrWdCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=did%20Hittite%20own%20slaves&f=false

      Have I said anywhere that the Hittite kingdoms were free of slavery? That distinction belongs to India alone! Why are you making up statements that I am not making?

      Archimedian Persian empire the descendants of Elamites and Medes et al(culturally) used slaves .Islam was yet to be born at that time .

      slave societies of Aztecs,Incas etc

      Yes. So? What about them? What are you saying?

      Caste system proof of slave system in ancient India (Shudras/Dalits in particular) . A very popular social practice .

      Did you find any historical or archaeological proof of humans being captured, recaptured, sold and resold, in organized slave markets in India – with State sanction and protection? Can I have a reference to that? That my dear sir is slavery!

      By the way, if you check with some Keralite nuns in Vatican, they will tell you about Casteism in the Vatican!

      Your concept of “Greater India” is funny . Maybe a separate discussion on that later .

      I am so glad that you found it funny – but of course, you have nothing to say why you found it funny!

      If you point what is it that you found funny, maybe I will use more of that and improve it!

  11. David said, on September 25, 2009 at 1:07 pm

    ——————————————————————–
    Typo its Achaemenid Persian empire

    The fact that Elamite could be Dravidian is only a hypothesis put forward by some historians. You have come to a decided conclusion based simply on speculative reasoning and you have stated every other Iranian tribe whose ‘origins are unknown’ to be Indian ! .

  12. John M. C. said, on September 25, 2009 at 4:10 pm

    I am with you brother David. When you abrogate the ideas of the evil pagan faiths you are serving our Master – the Lord Jesus Christ.

    But don’t be so gentle with these heathens – the lord did say “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.” Matthew 10.34

    Spread the word of God in the land of the Hindus, who will burn in the fires of hell… and brother David, despite your Indian ethnicity, the Lord will save some space for you in Heaven for spreading His word. All are welcome in His Kingdom – even the brown skinned.

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on September 25, 2009 at 6:14 pm

      Aha!

      The penny drops! I was wondering why this took so long!

      QED!

      • truth seeker said, on March 14, 2012 at 6:46 pm

        Some genuine grade A jesus freaks here, anurag!They have been masking themselves very well, but at last the garb has fallen.

  13. internetguru said, on September 1, 2011 at 5:34 am

    After reading the text I have come to the inevitable conclusion that:”ANURAAG SANGHI IS AN *@#*@#”

  14. manu said, on September 2, 2011 at 5:54 am

    Thanks David and John MC … opening the eyes of the heathen/pagan Indians to the real intentions of the west… I wish more of you can come out in the open like this rather than hiding behind the liberal … just to all… democratic.. humane image you project….

  15. Rasheed Husayn said, on January 12, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    On a spiritual side I have seen Prophet Muhammad PBH 10times and I say it with no boasting I dreamt of the Prophet PBH and I am standing besides him and I was told I am not a sayyid and I ask the Prophet PBH about the Indian people, he PBH had a big smile on his face this is why I started to find out about the Indian people particularly the dark ones 2times I dreamt the dravidians are the sumerians and 1time they are from Canaan and that the blacks and ethiopians are from cush ibn ham

    and after a yr I came across something in Prophets and Patriarchs which it said 2times Nimrod(disbeliever was son of cush son of canaan son of ham There is two cush’s and people have gotten them mixed up the sumerians migrated to india but also they went into southern arabia thats how a group of them made it to the horn of africa and the dark afro asiatic elamites are from Phut ibn Ham yes the cushites from cush ibn ham are indeed blessed as well

    i dreamt a explanation of the dravidians i was told in the dream (hamitic) in type with straight hair and were also egyptians then after some time i dreamt the dravidians came from the fertile crescent in syria close to the sea and after this i dreamt they came from egypt close to the sea and i see arrows showing their travel one arrow goes up into the fertile crescent in syria and the other goes east through south iraq and southern iran until the arrow reached northwest india! also i dreamt of a migration in the shape of a U on the river nile nowhere did i see anything to do with the horn of africa On 13/11/11 I dreamt the dravidians are Phoenicians( A branch of Dravidians did settle in the fertile crescent in syria close to the sea)

  16. Rasheed Husayn said, on January 12, 2012 at 10:56 pm

    in addition to what i dreamt after i would google it and indeed look at this .This is a arcticle off internet not mine you can google it u will find same
    The Mediterranean Peoples (Dravidians)

    (Extracts from ‘The Original Indians — An Enquiry’ by Dr. A. Desai)

    How the Mediterranean people came to be called Dravidians makes interesting story. The Pre-Hellenistic Lycians of Asi Minor, who where probably the Mediterranean stock called themselves Trimmili. Another tribe of this branch in the island of Crete was known by the name Dr(a)mil or Dr(a)miz. In ancient Sanskrit writings we find the terms Dramili and Dravidi, and then Dravida which referred to the southern portion of India.

    South India was known to the ancient Greek and Roman geographers as Damirica or Limurike. Periplus Maris Erithroei (Periplus of the Eritrean Sea) in the second or third century AD described the maritime route followed by Greek ships sailing to the South Indian ports: “Then follow Naoura and Tundis, the first marts of Limurike and after these Mouziris and Nelkunda, the seats of government.â€

    Dramila, Dravida and Damirica indicated the territory. Then it was applied to the people living in the territory and the language they spoke, in the local parlance Tamil and Tamil Nadu or Tamilakam.

    ———————–

    The Mediterraneans or Dravidians were associated with the ancient Sumerian civilizations of Mesopotamia and of Elam (southern Iran). Authors have pointed out ethnic, linguistic and cultural affinities between the Sumerians (Mesopotamians) and the Dravidians of South India, and concluded that both probably belonged to the same ethnic stock. HR Hall writes: “The ethnic type of the Sumerians, so strongly marked in their statues and relofs was as different from those of the races which surrounded them as was their language from those of the Semites, Aryans and others; they were decidedly Indian in type. The face-type of the average Indian today is no doubt much the same as that of the Dravidian race ancestors thousands of years ago…And it is to this Dravidian ethnic type of India that the ancient Sumerian bears most resemblance, so far as we can judge from his monuments. He was very like a Southern Hindu of the Deccan (who still speaks Dravidian languages). And it is by no means improbable that the Sumerians were an Indian tribe which passed, certainly by land, perhaps also by sea, through Persia to the valley of the Two Rivers.â€

    Hall is of the opinion that Dravidian people must have migrated to Mesopotamia from India, whereas others think Dravidians came from Mediterranean regions, which was their earlier home. KP Padmanabha Menon writes about their close relationship: “Orientalists, many of them, are prepared to concede that the Sumerians, the Mediterranean race, are branches of the early Dravidians.â€

  17. Rasheed Husayn said, on January 12, 2012 at 10:58 pm

    The Muslim historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (c. 915) recounts a tradition that the wife of Lud was named Shakbah, daughter of Japheth, and that she bore him “Faris, Jurjan, and the races of Faris”. He further asserts that Lud was the progenitor of not only the Persians, but also the Amalekites and Canaanites, and all the peoples of the East, Oman, Hejaz, Syria, Egypt, and Bahrein. wikipedia
    also 2times i have dreamt the Indo aryan lydians were in north africa

  18. Rasheed Husayn said, on January 12, 2012 at 11:04 pm

    The Persian historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (c. 915) recounts a tradition that the wife of Cush was named Qarnabil, daughter of Batawil, son of Tiras, and that she bore him the “Abyssinians, Sindis and Indians
    wikipedia now in prophets in patriarchs it mentions two times nimrod was son of cush son of canaan people have mistaken the cush ibn canaan with the cush son of canaan the sindis and indians are indeed are from canaan (dravidians) many people telling a lot of lies shiva is a deity of the dravidians and before sumerians the aryan hittites borrowed from the sumerians and babylonians in religion

  19. Rasheed Husayn said, on January 12, 2012 at 11:10 pm

    also i have dreamt of the hittite they faces they looked meditteranean with a dusky color and black hair and i also saw another face which resembled the aboriginal people of central america so it is two different faces

  20. Rasheed Husayn said, on January 13, 2012 at 12:04 am

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ullUcld5psA new tamil song

  21. iraqihusayn (@iraqihusayn) said, on February 15, 2012 at 9:34 am

    2times i have dreamt the lydians were in north africa
    and if u google it u will find they intermingled with the people of phut ,cush and the chubs
    and i have dreamt berbers migrating to southern mesopotamia i have dreamt the elamites were afro asiatic and we know dravidian is also cognate to elamite it could be very well the brahui who have a dravidian tongue are the descendants of the elamites both are nomadic the brahui carry 28% overall J dna Semitic by the way i have also i have also dreamt of the afro asiatic face and the dravidian the dravidian has very straight nose bridge and the hair is long and straight and the afro asiatic is similar but the hair is very full i have only seen one somali man and one indian man with this feature and the closest i have seen to them is a brahui chief very similar

  22. iraqihusayn (@iraqihusayn) said, on February 15, 2012 at 9:42 am

    http://arutkural.tripod.com/sumstudies/sum-as-arch-tamil.htm

    http://www.lightbridgemusic.com/sumer.htm

    info below is from wikipedia! dravidians are L and look where L is found
    L was found in( 51% of Syrians from Al-Raqqah), a northern Syrian city in which its previous inhabitants have been wiped out by the Mongols by and repopulated in recent times by localBedouin populations and Chechen war refugees.[4] In a small sample of Israeli Druze haplogroup L was found in 7 out of 20 (35%). However, studies done on bigger samples showed that L-M20 averages 5% in Israeli Druze,[5] 8% in Lebanese Druze,[6] and it was not found in a sample of 59Syrian Druze. Haplogroup L has been found in 2.0% (1/50)[7] to 5.25% (48/914)[8] of Lebanese. wikipedia
    L y dna
    Syria 51.0% (33/65) of Syrians in Al-Raqqah,( 31.0% of Eastern Syrians) Mirvat El-Sibai et al. 2009[4] Iran 3.4% L1-M76 (4/117) and 2.6% L2-M317 (3/117)
    for a total of 6.0% (7/117) haplogroup L in southern Iran
    3.0% (1/33) L3-M357 in northern Iran Regueiro et al. 2006(( Turkey 57% in Afshar village,)) 12% (10/83) in Black Sea Region, 4.2% (1/523 L-M349 and 21/523 L-M11(xM27, M349)) Cinnioğlu et al. 2004, Gokcumen (2008)

    The subclades of Haplogroup L with their defining mutation(s), according to the 2011 ISOGG tree:

    L (M11, M20, M22, M61/Page43, M185)
    L* Found only in Europe from Ireland to Eastern Europe[26]
    L1 (M295) Found from Western Europe to South Asia [27]
    L1*
    L1a (M27, M76, P329) Found frequently in Indians, Sri Lankans, andBalochs, with a moderate distribution in other populations of Pakistan, southern Iran, and Arabia but also in European populations
    L1b (M317) Found at low frequency in Central Asia, Southwest Asia, and Central Europe
    L1b*
    L1b1 (M349) Principally found in Europe
    L1b2 (M274)
    L1c (M357) Found frequently among Burushos, Kalashas, Chechensand Pashtuns, with a moderate distribution among other populations inPakistan, Georgia, northern Iran, India, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia
    L1c*
    L1c1 (PK3) Found frequently among Kalash
    Mari (modern Tell Hariri, Syria) was an ancient( Sumerian and Amorite city), located 11 kilometers north-west of the modern town of Abu Kamal on the western bank of Euphrates river, some 120 km southeast of Deir ez-Zor, Syria. It is thought to have been inhabited since the 5th millennium BC, although it flourished with series of superimposed palaces that spans a thousand years, from 2900 BC until 1759 BC, when it was sacked by Hammurabi.[1]

    Abu Kamal (Arabic: أبو كمال‎, Turkish: Ebu Kemal or Kışla) is a city in eastern Syria on theEuphrates River near the border with Iraq. The Euphrates divides Abu Kamal into two areas: Shamiyya (belonging to the Levant) and Jazira (belonging to Mesopotamia) Al-Jazira, a plains region consisting of northeastern Syria and northwestern Iraq, quite distinct from the Syrian Desertand lower-lying central Mesopotamia. Abu Kamal is an economically prosperous farming region with cattle-breeding, cereals, and cotton crops. It is also home to the historical site Dura-Europos and the ancient kingdom of Mari.

    • SharmaLondon said, on June 25, 2012 at 11:48 pm

      A recent study of DNA of Zebu by Chen (2009) has shown that Bos indicus or Zebu had been domesticated only in India, and not at any other place, ruling out all skepticism in thematter, and proving that it was only after full domestication in India, that Zebu migrated to other parts of the world.

    • SharmaLondon said, on June 25, 2012 at 11:57 pm

      ”No foreign genes or DNA has entered the Indian mainstream in the last 60000 years,”
      American Journal of Human Genetics in its issue dated December 9, 2011.

      Their has NEVER BEEN a single MIGRATION into india, after the initial disperal from Africa. All Indians have the exact same genetic makeup, all indian genome plots in a group, all indian people have genome that is highly different from the rest of the world. No Dravidian migration from Elam, No White european aryan tribes pushing the ”natives” down to the south, no continous invasions in to india, until the second wave of islamic invaders. ARYAN theory is a religous ideology of jews, christians and muslims to give support and fit in line with Noahs three son linage of the world. Where the two light skinned brothers, shem and japeth, where made superior than the third son ham, who was darkened to be a slave to the other two. So WHITE aryan theory supports the view that SOME WHITE TRIBE from somewhere in Europe/central asia civilised the Indians….aryan theory is religous ideology to support noahs three son lineage. Thats why its still told in India, its backed by all Non-Dharmic faiths, and the Non dharmic faiths have all the stolen wealth from the Dharmic kingdoms, so with that wealth they are heavily promoting such tales to miseducate and raise generations of people who eventually whole heartedly beleive in such tales to the point they carry out acts of violence, plunder, conversion as acts of FAITH sold to them by the Christian/european Islamic/Arab elite.

  23. iraqihusayn (@iraqihusayn) said, on February 15, 2012 at 9:46 am

    http://www.jstor.org/pss/412012

    Abstract

    It is demonstrated here that the Dravidian family of languages in South Asia is cognate with Elamite, an ancient language of West Asia. This demonstration is based on 57 Elamite words (mostly verb stems) paired with corresponding Dravidian terms. The correspondences are, on the whole, straightforward and interlocking. A beginning is made in reconstructing the phonology of Proto-Elamo-Dravidian.

    http://www.kavehfarrokh.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/elamitedravidian.pdf

  24. iraqihusayn (@iraqihusayn) said, on February 15, 2012 at 9:47 am

    ‘Imliq is the father of the Amalekites from whom came the berbers,who are children of Thamila bin Maarib bin Faaraan bin ‘Amr bin ‘Imliq bin Lud bin Sam(Shem) bin Nuh (Noah)PBH

    Amalek in the Muslim Tradition

    Muslims and Arabs have their own tradition about Amalek or Amlaqi. In the Muslim tradition as complied in Tarikh al-Tabari or History of the Prophets and Kings, claim that Amalek was an ancient Arabian tribe, and that Amalek’s original name was “Arib”.

    It also claims that the Amalekites originally lived in and were the guardians of Mecca, and the Black Stone inside it, the al-Hajaru-l-Aswad, a meteorite which serves as the cornerstone of the Kabaa. The Black Stone came from the Wabar craters, which were the impact site for a massive meteor which destroyed the legendary cite of Iram, 6000 years ago.

    The layout of the impact area suggests that the body fell at a shallow angle, and was moving at typical meteorite entry speeds of 40,000 to 60,000 km/h. Its total mass was more than 3,500 tonnes. The shallow angle presented the body with more air resistance than it would have encountered at a steeper angle, and it broke up in the air into at least four pieces before impact. The biggest piece struck with an explosion roughly equivalent to the atom bomb that leveled Hiroshima.

    The city of Iram or Ubar was an ancient city 6000 years ago destroyed by the impact. The Black Stone was not completely unique

    there were other “Kaaba” structures in other parts of Arabia. A “red stone” was the deity of the south Arabian city of Ghaiman, and there was a “white stone” in the Ka’ba of al-Abalat (near the city of Tabala, south of Mecca)

    According to Islamic tradition

    Es Someyda was the last Amalekite king who dwelt in Mekka and ruled over Palestine and the lands in between. Here is his story: “The king of Syria es-Someyda, son of Hubar, son of Malik, marched against Joshua, son of Nun, and after many fights, was killed by the latter, who conquered his kingdom..

    Mekka is of course Mecca. And here’s something fun…

    In (Arabic: عملاق,ʿimlāq‎) is the singular of giant, and the plural is (عمالقة, ʿamāliqah) or (عماليق, ʿamālīq),

    And then there’s Amalek in Egypt…

    Al-Samhudi- The Amalekites reached Syria and Egypt and took possession of these lands, and the tyrants of Syria and the Pharaohs of Egypt were of their origin. ( Velikovsky, 1952, pg 64 )

    Tabari- Then the king of Egypt died and another king, his relative, ascended the throne. He was also of Amalekite race and was named Kabous, son of Mosab, son of Maouya, son of Nemir, son of Salwas, son of Amrou, son of Amalek.( Velikovsky, 1952, pg 65 )

    • SharmaLondon said, on June 25, 2012 at 11:38 pm

      ‘Researchers found that the Indian populations had more genetic diversity than Europeans and East Asians, which gives a good indicator of the age of a population” Genographic project IBM.

      Sahoo et al had actually written the following words:“The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through thenorthwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny.Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a,and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the subcontinent are REJECTED, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H.” .They also rule out arrivals from Southwest Asia because West Asian haplogroups (like Y-Hg G) are not found in India.

      Kivisild’s findings (2003) too had shown that humans could not have arrived from West Asia into Indiabecause of lack of West Asian Y-hgs E, G, I, J* and J2f. Kivisild et al wrote,“When compared with European and Middle Eastern populations (Semino et al. 2000), Indians (i) share with themclades J2 and M173 derived sister groups R1b and R1a, the latter of which is particularly frequent in India; and (ii) lack or show amarginal frequency of clades E, G, I, J*, and J2f.”

      There is a fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity, pointing to a relatively small founding group of females in India. Most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.- Scientists Susanta Roychoudhury and thirteen others studying 644 samples of mtDNA from ten Indian ethnic groups.

      Dravidian” authorship of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization rejected indirectly, since it noted, “Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus….” They found, in conclusion, “overwhelming support for an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers.”The frequencies of R2 seems to mirror the frequencies of R1a (i.e. both lineages are strong and weak in the same social and linguistic subgroups). This may indicate that both R1a and R2 moved into India at roughly the same time. R2 is very rare in Europe.Sanghamitra Sengupta, L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majuder, and P. A. Underhill. – 2006.

      A (2009) study headed by geneticist Swarkar Sharma, collated information for 2809 Indians (681 Brahmins, and 2128 tribals and schedule castes). The results showed “no consistent pattern of the exclusive presence and distribution of Y-haplogroups to distinguish the higher-most caste, Brahmins, from the lower-most ones, schedule castes and tribals”. Brahmins from West Bengal showed the highest frequency (72.22%) of Y-haplogroups R1a1* hinting that it may have been a founder lineage for this caste group. The authors found it significant that the Saharia tribe of Madhya Pradesh had not only 28.07% R1a1, but also 22.8% R1a*, out of 57 people, with such a high percentage of R1a* never having been found before. Based on STR variance the estimated age of R1a* in India was 18,478 years, and for R1a1 it was 13,768 years.In its conclusions the study proposed “the autochthonous origin and tribal links of Indian Brahmins” as well as “the origin of R1a1* … in the Indian subcontinent”.S. Sharma, argued for an Indian origin of R1a1 lineage among Brahmins, by pointing out the highest incidence of R1a*, ancestral clade to R1a1, among Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) and Saharias, an Indian tribe.
      – Sharma et al 2009

      Human Genetics at the University of Michigan, conducted genetic analysis of Indian-born individuals in the US. Their studies of 1,200.’We were struck both by the low level of diversity amongst people spanning such a large geographical region, and by the fact that people of the Indian sub-continent constituted a distinct group when compared to populations from other parts of the world,’ said Pragna I. Patel.

      The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally upper and lower castes and tribal groups. “The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society.”
      “Impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different.”
      -”Reconstructing Indian Population History”
      – David Reich, Kumarasamy Thangaraj, Nick Patterson, Alkes L. Price & Lalji Singh
      – 2009

      Moreover, there are other DNA lineages found in good numbers in West Asia like R1*, R1b3,J*, J2f, I, G and E which are in total more than 53% population of west Asia. These arevirtually absent from India (Sahoo). Had people migrated from West Asia to India,these haplogroups would also have arrived into India. This evidence proves that J2 did notarrive from West Asia, because no lineage can ever migrate without other lineages alsomigrating along with it from the place of origin or expansion. On the other hand nearly all of the Indian male lineages like F*, L1, H (M-69), K2, C5, C*, R1a (M-17) etc. are found inWest Asia, proving a definite Indian migration to West Asia. The HIV protective gene, whichis found in West Asia, and Central Asia too, is absent from India (Majumder and Dey, 2001).Thus on no account, any migration from West Asia to India can be supported.

      Sengupta (2006) showed that J2 is well distributed in Indian population.Sengupta et al (2006) found that the haplogroup J2 had a quite high variance, and hence deep time-depthin Indian tribes and castes too. Moreover the frequency is higher in the Dravidian speakingsouth Indians (19%) than the Indo-European speaking north Indians (11%). This destroys theAryan migration into India from West Asia hypothesis of Bellwood (2003 and 2005). The inference what we can derive from Sengupta and colleagues study’s data is that J2 haplogroup originated in India during Last Glacial Maximum, and migrated out of India whenclimate permitted. J2 is 18.7% in south Pakistan, the central place of Indus civilization.Lineage J2 and its derivatives are 23% in Iran and 22.2% in Turkey. (Regueiro et al.2006).But their variances are less than in India. Semino (2004) gives 18,000 ybp as the time of origin of J2. The variance was also high indicating indigenous origin of the haplogroup in India.J2 as well as its sub-clade J2b2 show a decreasing variance from India to the Balkans.

      Sahoo et al had actually written the following words:“The perennial concept of people, language, and agriculture arriving to India together through thenorthwest corridor does not hold up to close scrutiny.Recent claims for a linkage of haplogroups J2, L, R1a,and R2 with a contemporaneous origin for the majority of the Indian castes’ paternal lineages from outside the subcontinent are REJECTED, although our findings do support a local origin of haplogroups F* and H.” .They also rule out arrivals from Southwest Asia because West Asian haplogroups (like Y-Hg G) are not found in India.

      Kivisild’s findings (2003) too had shown that humans could not have arrived from West Asia into Indiabecause of lack of West Asian Y-hgs E, G, I, J* and J2f. Kivisild et al wrote,“When compared with European and Middle Eastern populations (Semino et al. 2000), Indians (i) share with themclades J2 and M173 derived sister groups R1b and R1a, the latter of which is particularly frequent in India; and (ii) lack or show amarginal frequency of clades E, G, I, J*, and J2f.”

      There is a fundamental unity of mtDNA lineages in India, in spite of the extensive cultural and linguistic diversity, pointing to a relatively small founding group of females in India. Most of the mtDNA diversity observed in Indian populations is between individuals within populations; there is no significant structuring of haplotype diversity by socio-religious affiliation, geographical location of habitat or linguistic affiliation.- Scientists Susanta Roychoudhury and thirteen others studying 644 samples of mtDNA from ten Indian ethnic groups.

      Dravidian” authorship of the Indus-Sarasvati civilization rejected indirectly, since it noted, “Our data are also more consistent with a peninsular origin of Dravidian speakers than a source with proximity to the Indus….” They found, in conclusion, “overwhelming support for an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers.”The frequencies of R2 seems to mirror the frequencies of R1a (i.e. both lineages are strong and weak in the same social and linguistic subgroups). This may indicate that both R1a and R2 moved into India at roughly the same time. R2 is very rare in Europe.
      Sanghamitra Sengupta, L. Cavalli-Sforza, Partha P. Majumder, and P. A. Underhill. – 2006.

      A (2009) study headed by geneticist Swarkar Sharma, collated information for 2809 Indians (681 Brahmins, and 2128 tribals and schedule castes). The results showed “no consistent pattern of the exclusive presence and distribution of Y-haplogroups to distinguish the higher-most caste, Brahmins, from the lower-most ones, schedule castes and tribals”. Brahmins from West Bengal showed the highest frequency (72.22%) of Y-haplogroups R1a1* hinting that it may have been a founder lineage for this caste group. The authors found it significant that the Saharia tribe of Madhya Pradesh had not only 28.07% R1a1, but also 22.8% R1a*, out of 57 people, with such a high percentage of R1a* never having been found before. Based on STR variance the estimated age of R1a* in India was 18,478 years, and for R1a1 it was 13,768 years.In its conclusions the study proposed “the autochthonous origin and tribal links of Indian Brahmins” as well as “the origin of R1a1* … in the Indian subcontinent”.
      S. Sharma, argued for an Indian origin of R1a1 lineage among Brahmins, by pointing out the highest incidence of R1a*, ancestral clade to R1a1, among Kashmiri Pandits (Brahmins) and Saharias, an Indian tribe.
      – Sharma et al 2009

      The study analysed 500,000 genetic markers across the genomes of 132 individuals from 25 diverse groups from 13 states. All the individuals were from six-language families and traditionally upper and lower castes and tribal groups. “The genetics proves that castes grew directly out of tribe-like organizations during the formation of the Indian society.”
      “Impossible to distinguish between castes and tribes since their genetics proved they were not systematically different.”
      -”Reconstructing Indian Population History”
      – David Reich, Kumarasamy Thangaraj, Nick Patterson, Alkes L. Price & Lalji Singh
      – 2009

      Underhill and colleagues (2009) presented a detailed study of R1a lineages.
      Theyfound that R1a is oldest in India. This lineage started expanding from Gujarat about 16,000years back. By 14,000 years back or earlier, it reached the Ganga Valley and Indus Valley.Then people carrying R1a genes migrated out of India, through Afghanistan and Tajikistan,reaching Central Asia. From Central Asia they entered East Europe. They inhabited thePontic-Caspian area. Then they populated those areas which are inhabited today by Slavicand Baltic speaking people

      Team working on the same topic included Sengupta, King, Cavalli-Sforza, Underhilland colleagues. They showed that R (especially R1a1 and R2) diversity in India is indigenousin origin and does not support hypothesis of immigration from Central Asia or anywhere outside. R1a prevalence is not only high in Indo-European speaking Punjab, south Pakistan and Ganga Valley, but also in Chenchu and Koya tribes of south India (Kivisildet al.200

      Oppenheimer (2003) also had supported Indian origin of R1a which is also called M17 in
      genetic circles. He wrote, “And sure enoug
      h we find highest rates and greatest diversity of the M17 line in Pakistan, north India, and eastern Iran, and low rates in the Caucasus. M17 isnot only more diverse in South Asia than in Central Asia but diversity characterizes itspresence in isolated tribal groups in the south, thus undermining any theory of M17 as amarker of a ‘male Aryan Invasion of India.’ Study of the geographical distribution and thediversity of genetic branches and stems again suggests that Ruslan, along with his son M17,arose early in South Asia, somewhere near India”.

  25. iraqihusayn (@iraqihusayn) said, on February 15, 2012 at 9:53 am

    Religion
    The Hittites adopted many of the gods of the Sumerians and Old Babylonians. The odd thing about the Hittites, though, is that they seemed to have recognized that all gods were legitimate gods. Whenever they conquered a people, they adopted that people’s gods into their religious system.

    As far as history is concerned, this has tremendous consequences for the history of the Hebrews. The Assyrians seem to have adopted the same tolerance towards other religions, which allowed the Jewish faith to persist after the Jewish state was decimated by the Assyrians. And the Assyrians seem to have adopted the same tendency to adopt the gods of conquered people, so the Assyrian conquerors of Palestine adopted the Hebrew god, Yahweh, into their religion. This eventually led to the only major religious schism in Hebrew history, the schism between Jews and Samaritans. There are still Samaritans alive today. http://www.crystalinks.com/hittites.html

  26. admin said, on May 1, 2012 at 1:10 pm
  27. Aman said, on May 10, 2012 at 9:12 pm

    Hi anurag… its aman here… i totally agree with you…I think we have been born into a religion dat accepts free debates… which gives freedom to anyone to speak rationally…It was nice to read something similar to my thoughts…but its also weird how a non religious discussion took a religious turn…would love to get in touch wid u, if u stil share similar thoughts…tc gnt


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