2ndlook

Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan: India’s Defence Vision

Posted in British Raj, China, India, Indo Pak Relations, Pax Americana, politics by Anuraag Sanghi on October 30, 2012

With Agni, Brahmos missiles, Arjun MBT, Tejas LCA and the induction of a stealth fighter in ten years, Indian defence posture will have a profile that will intimidate any aggressor – adequately.

A Puff Of Dust

India’s collective memory plays strange tricks.

British Raj no longer evokes outrage or indignation in India, within a few decades after the end of colonial rule. The same British Raj, who were overseers of India’s rapid decline from the richest economy to the poorest in a short span of 100 years. Britain’s rapid decline after the loss of India rarely registers on Indian minds.

Inspite of a nuclear neighbourhood, defence issues are not electoral hot-buttons in India’s mind-scape. China and Pakistan apart, the three other nuclear powers, (USA, Britain, France) also have military presence in India’s immediate vicinity. In India’s collective memory, its remarkable rise from the Great Bengal Famine of 1941 to overflowing food godowns in 2011 is lost in the media din and NGO activism.

But then, this par for the course, for a society that keeps re-indexing even heroes like Raghu Ramachandra and Yadu Krishna.

Walk The Talk …

65 years later, after the end of colonial rule, the Indian State, is trying to be all things to all people – with giant-schemes like MNREGA and AADHAR. LB Shastri’s policy of Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan committed the Indian State to two objectives – India will not go hungry and India will not back down, militarily. To an India recovering from colonial loot of the British Raj, these were the two non-negotiables.

Ten years after Shastri’s Jai Jawan Jai Kisan policy, by 1975, India had achieved food security at a national level. Defence parity with immediate and emerging threats was another matter – and will probably take till 2025.

Today these may seem within reach – but back then in 1965, it the dark night seemed stretch endlessly ahead.

Kargil Infographic - Source & courtesy - globalsecurity.org

Kargil Infographic – Source & courtesy – globalsecurity.org

Trouble In The Barrio

India shares borders with two nuclear neighbors – unlike any other country in the world. India has also fought four wars with Pakistan, one with China and managed another war-scenario with Portugal.

Pakistan had to eat crow on all four occasions. Indian acceptance of Chinese ceasefire, made the Chinese campaign look better than the probable outcome had the war continued. India’s Goa campaign, does not even find a mention in Indian military history – even though India stared down a Western-colonial power.

Parity & Proportion

Fifty years after LB Shastri’s death, by 2016, India will probably start seeing military parity in the modern era. Behind this parity, are two developments in India’s defence posture.

One is the Indo-Russian development of the Brahmos missile. The world’s only supersonic missile, at many times the speed of sound, the Brahmos completes its attack in 5-10 minutes of its launch. There is currently no system whatsoever that can stop a Brahmos. Based on ramjet engines, Brahmos has no global rival.

Flying just 15 metres above water level, Brahmos is virtually invisible to radar, when launched from a warship. Fully mobile, it can stop an invading land-unit. The air-version, to be deployed soon, will probably shoot down an enemy aircraft even before it enters Indian airspace.

You Talkin’ To Me

The Americans, without a similar missile, have been talking-up an electromagnetic railgun – which can only be launched from nuclear warships, due to enormous electrical requirements. These railguns under development for more than 60 years now, cannot knock out a Brahmos. Being very compact, Brahmos can be launched from multiple platforms.

Further, Indo-Russian teams of defence scientists are developing Brahmos from supersonic to hypersonic missile. The Brahmos uses a ramjet engine technology that even the US or the EU don’t have. Brahmos effectively creates a 200 km barrier in Indian airspace, at borders and on the coastline – at a very low-cost. Guided by the Russian Glonass system, Brahmos is not dependent on the American GPS system.

By 2025, India would have deployed enough numbers of Brahmos missiles, to deter any invader.

The Big Whale

Two – The other major development is the T-50 Fifth-Generation Fighter-Aircraft (FGFA). Currently, the only FGFA actually deployed is the the US F-22 Raptor. Grounded due to faulty oxygen-supply system, the F-22 may never be able to match the T-50 FGFA, based on current evaluations – and comes at more than three times the expected price of the Indo-Russian T-50 FGFA.

Interestingly, India’s choice of Rafale, in the MMRCA tender, could be a crucial technology bridge that will enhance the Russian FGFA into a super-FGFA Indian version – like how the SU-27 became the SU-30MKI. For long, the SU-30 was a export product – and recently, the Russian airforce has ordered a domestic version, which is based on the Indian design.

The choice of Rafale is closely tied to transfer of AESA-radar technology – which currently, apart from US and Russia, no other country has. The Eurofighter Typhoon is expecting to get that technology a few years down the road. France is forming a JV-company between Thales and BEL to produce the AESA radar in India.

F-22 Raptor – Running or Hiding?

Curiously, the US has decided to stop the manufacture of F-22 Raptor aircraft. The F-22 Raptor aircraft was also not used in recent Libya operations or sold to any foreign US ally. But, while the US was ‘unwilling’ to sell the F-22 Raptor, the US has pressured eight of its allies to join the newer F-35 Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) project. So, while the US was reluctant to sell the older F-22 Raptor, it is very eager to sell the F-35 to it allies and client-States.

Was the US hiding ‘secret’ technology – or hiding technology defects?

The FGFA for USA + 8 Allies - The F-35 (JSF) Variants

The FGFA for USA + 8 Allies – The F-35 (JSF) Variants

The next FGFA from the US, the F-35 is nearly US$250 billion in development, technically unstable, facing critical problems – and not yet in production. In contrast, the Indo-Russian T-50 FGFA is currently budgeted at less than US$40 billion.

Delays and cost overruns have plagued the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter – which at $238bn is the Pentagon’s biggest weapons procurement programme – and one variant of the plane suffered cracks in the bulkhead after it had flown just 1,500 hours out of a planned 16,000.The US Air Force has also had to ground dozens of F-22 fighter jets for the second time this year, after a pilot had experienced oxygen deficiency in the cockpit, officers reported in early October. The announcement follows the air force’s highly unusual step of grounding the entire Raptor fleet between May and mid-September, to allow engineers to investigate possible problems with the plane’s oxygen supply

Elaborate tests and safety measures have nevertheless failed to locate the precise source of the fault. The latest case follows around a dozen previous incidents affecting F-22 pilots over a three-year period, the circumstances of which the US Air Force is reluctant to discuss in detail.

At a cost of nearly $150 million a plane, the F-22 Raptor is designed mainly for dogfights against rival fighter jets, and the radar-evading aircraft were not deployed in the Nato-led campaign over Libya.

via Top attack aircraft – T-50 to J20 – Airforce Technology.

Enormously complex, the F-35 project aims to deliver three versions of the aircraft.

Cost apart, there is also the matter of design-logic. While the F-35 seeks to attack deep in enemy territory, relying on radar evasion through stealth technology, the T-50 FGFA is designed to ensure that air dominance is not lost. While the F-35 relies on stealth technology, the T-50 depends to extreme maneuverability to win an aerial dog fight. The idea of deep-penetration-and-strike mission by a stealth aircraft was thoroughly discredited after the Serbs shot down America’s stealth aircraft, F-117 Nighthawk with a vintage Soviet-era S-125Neva anti-aircraft system in 1999.

The attack role of the F-35 will increasingly be the domain of cheaper missiles and drones – not expensive stealth aircraft.

The Russians are not looking to make the aerodynamic tradeoffs to stealth that the US has made, for a variety of reasons including the effectiveness and costs of such stealth. Given that stealth in the real world would be far less effective than the advertised “metal marble” because the enemy may not always come exactly head on, nor use the radar’s that the F-22s were tested with. Nor would any future competent enemy only have one radar on (but rather a plethora of ground and airborne radars at various frequencies). Further, wear and tear in a real world operational scenario are likely to reduce stealth.

via Grande Strategy.

On the other hand, T-50 will do a better job on denial of air-superiority, even against stealth aircraft. Since stealth aircraft have a small and low radar profile, a missile attack on a stealth-fighter will probably be unsuccessful – and a T-50 type of fighter plane may be a better aircraft for an aerial dog-fight with a stealth fighter.

Main performance characteristics of Sukhoi T-50 fighter jet and similar foreign aircraft  |  Source & credit embedded in image.

Main performance characteristics of Sukhoi T-50 fighter jet and similar foreign aircraft | Source & credit embedded in image.

Models From Russia

With three prototypes and nearly 150 flights to its credit, the T-50 FGFA will start rolling off Russian assembly lines in four years.

Twenty-one months after first flight at Komsomolsk-on-Amur in Siberia, the Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA fleet recorded its 100th flight on 3 November.

For perspective, the Lockheed Martin F-35 programme needed 31 months from the first take-off by the AA-1 test aircraft to pass the 100th flight mark.

via Sukhoi T-50 PAK-FA passes 100th flight milestone – The DEW Line.

Europeans would still be tinkering with their 4G++ Euro-fighter Typhoon – even as India will be a FGFA manufacturer.

One notable feature that India wants is a 360° active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar rather than the more conventional AESA found on the original Russian aircraft. A 360° AESA would be a first for any fighter on the planet, and it will undoubtedly be expensive.

via Indian PAK-FA variant delayed by two years – The DEW Line.

AESA, Waisa, Kaisa

The 360° active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar is already in use on the sub-sonic Indian indigenous Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C), mounted on a Brazilian Embraer aircraft using about 60 antennae and sensors.

Work on the crucial transceiver unit is happening in parallel. Meanwhile the Russians are developing an AESA system using X-band radar antenna containing over 1,000 solid transmit/receive modules. India’s own development direction seems to be different from others. Russia’s offer to fully transfer AESA radar technology of Zhuk-ME system, from Phazotron-NIIR Corporation did not get much traction in India.

The Chinese J-20 FGFA, by most expert opinion, is dead in water – without an engine, AESA radar, technologies that the Chinese lack.

The Chinese J-20 (Mighty Dragon) fifth-generation fighter jet program is advancing in truly huge strides. The jet has already made over 60 test flights, performing elements of aerial acrobatics.

In 2009, General He Weirong, Deputy Commander of the People’s Liberation Army Air Force estimated that the J-20 would be operational no earlier than in 2017-2019. Now it appears Chinese engineers have done a great job and the jet is much closer to being ready than expected.

Created by Chengdu Aircraft Corporation, this heavy fighter jet is the first military plane China has constructed on its own, without visible attempts at copying foreign technology. It resembles neither the American Raptor F-22, nor the Russian T-50 PAK-FA.

Though peculiar forms of the jet and technical decisions allegedly realized in the vehicle might be questionable, one thing about this plane is an established fact.

As of now, the J-20 flies with two Russian AL-31F jet engines it borrowed from the Russian Su-27 fighter jet that entered Chinese service in the mid-1980s.

China also tried to put engines of their own on a second test J-20 vehicle, but the copycat of the Soviet engine AL-31F made by China is not in the same league as the Russian analogue for reliability and durability.

The real problem is both AL-31F and Chinese version are engines of the previous generation.

No question the Chinese jet is a prototype model and technology demonstration vehicle called to test new equipment and technology. Defined as a technology showroom, it may fly whatever engines its creator considers possible. But China has no working engine for a 5G jet.

via Chinese ‘Mighty Dragon’ doomed to breathe Russian fire — RT.

By 2025

With the Brahmos and T-50 FGFA, Indian defence will be able to hold on against any force in the world. By 2025, India’s Arjun MBT platform will be stable. The LCA will be in a position to bulk up the IAF. Indian shipyards will start delivering aircraft carriers. Agni missile family will make for a formidable missile array that can attack targets 5000 miles away.

Most importantly, this military parity will be achieved at a cost that India can sustain – and only India can manage.

Following India, Russia has taken some baby-steps in initiating defence ties with Israel and France. Based on an expanding defence trade with India, by 2025 France and Israel may join the Indo-Russian defence alliance.

This will further deepen the technology base – and drive down costs, to levels that Indians apart, no one even imagines.

What about China

If China has been given less importance in this post, it is for a reason.

Between 1990-2000, as the Soviet economy went into a tailspin, Russian defence producers had no customers and no money. Cut-off from Russian State funding, defence production and research suffered.

A year after the collapse of the Soviet Union, a cash-strapped Kremlin began selling China a chunk of its vast military arsenal, including the pride of the Russian air force, the Sukhoi-27 fighter jet.

For the next 15 years, Russia was China’s biggest arms supplier, providing $20 billion to $30 billion of fighters, destroyers, submarines, tanks and missiles. It even sold Beijing a license to make the Su-27 fighter jet—with imported Russian parts.

Today, Russia’s military bonanza is over, and China’s is just beginning.

After decades of importing and reverse-engineering Russian arms, China has reached a tipping point: It now can produce many of its own advanced weapons—including high-tech fighter jets like the Su-27—and is on the verge of building an aircraft carrier.

Not only have Chinese engineers cloned the prized Su-27’s avionics and radar but they are fitting it with the last piece in the technological puzzle, a Chinese jet engine.

In the past (few) years, Beijing hasn’t placed a major order from Moscow.

Now, China is starting to export much of this weaponry, undercutting Russia in the developing world, and potentially altering the military balance in several of the world’s flash points.

Russia’s predicament mirrors that of many foreign companies as China starts to compete in global markets with advanced trains, power-generating equipment and other civilian products based on technology obtained from the West.

In this case, there is an additional security dimension, however: China is developing weapons systems, including aircraft carriers and carrier-based fighters, that could threaten Taiwan and test U.S. control of the Western Pacific.

Chinese exports of fighters and other advanced weapons also threaten to alter the military balance in South Asia, Sudan and Iran.

But no other Asian country has sought to project military power—and had the indigenous capability to do so—since Japan’s defeat in 1945.

China’s rapid mastery of Russian technology raises questions about U.S. cooperation with the civilian faces of Chinese arms makers.

While Russia worries about intellectual property, other countries are concerned about security. The arms programs China initiated two or three decades ago are starting to bear fruit, with serious implications for the regional—and global—military balance.

The J-11B is expected to be used by the Chinese navy as its frontline fighter, capable of sustained combat over the entire East China Sea and South China Sea.

Aircraft carriers and J-15 fighters would further enhance its ability to stop the U.S. intervening in a conflict over Taiwan, and test its control of the Western Pacific.

China’s arms exports could have repercussions on regions in conflict around the world. Pakistan inducted its first squadron of Chinese-made fighter jets in February, potentially altering the military balance with India.

Other potential buyers of China’s JF-17 fighter jet include Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Venezuela, Nigeria, Morocco and Turkey. In the past, China has also sold fighters to Sudan.

The potential customer of greatest concern to the U.S. is Iran, which purchased about $260 million of weapons from China between 2002-2009, according to Russia’s Centre for Analysis of the Global Arms Trade.

via China Clones, Sells Russian Fighter Jets – WSJ.com.

Su-30MKI Fighter that has become the mainstay of IAF. Image source & credits embedded.

Su-30MKI Fighter that has become the mainstay of IAF. Image source & credits embedded.

Indian and Chinese defence contracts played a huge role in saving Russian defence industry. During this same period, to overcome supply disruptions, the Chinese decided to expropriate Russian defence products without licence or consent.

It said that while more than 90% of China’s major conventional weapons imports came from Russia between 1991 and 2010, the volume of imports had declined dramatically in the last five years.

Russia’s diversified customer base, which allowed it to take a tougher negotiating stance with China, particularly given anxiety about how China would use its purchases.

“Russia is unwilling to provide China with advanced weapons and technology, primarily because it is concerned that China will copy Russian technology and compete with Russia on the international arms market,” said Holtom.

“The nature of the arms transfer relationship will increasingly be characterised by competition rather than co-operation.”

via Russia arrests Chinese ‘spy’ in row over defence weapons | World news | The Guardian.

Russians cite many cases where China has ‘copied’ Russian defence items.

It is an open secret that China has copied quite a number of Russian weapons. The list begins with Soviet I-15 and I-16 fighter jets, not to mention the legendary Kalashnikov rifle.

The list continues with D-30 howitzer, BMP-1 armored vehicle, BMP-3, Malyutka anti-tank complex, An-12 military cargo plane, Strela-2 shoulder-fired missile complex, S-300 missile system, Msta-S howitzer, Smerch volley-fire system and other weaponry. The last rip-off report was referred to Su-33 deck-based fighter jet.

China previously had the licensed production of Soviet Romeo submarines, which were dubbed in China as “Type 39.” Chinese engineers acknowledged that their developments were based on Russian state-of-the-art defense technologies. However, they vehemently denied the fact of blunt copying claiming that that they had considerably improved them.

It may seem strange that Russia has not set forth any claims to China yet. However, China is Russia’s long-time partner in the field of arms trade and Russia is not willing to ruin relations with China. Does Russia overestimate the importance of defense cooperation with the Asian giant? China usually makes small one-time purchases that do not bring much profit to Russia. Moreover, the purchases are made to simply copy the original. For example, the Chinese bought one or two radars for fighter jets from Russia only to launch their serial production several years later.

via China to conquer world arms market with poor quality rip-offs – English pravda.ru.

For close to fifteen years, China alongwith India were major buyers of Russian defence products.

For almost two decades, it was close to the perfect match of buyer and seller.

Denied weapons and defense technology from the West, China was almost totally reliant on Russia for the hardware it needed to jump-start an ambitious military buildup. And while the Russian economy teetered in the aftermath of the Soviet Union’s collapse, huge orders from China helped keep a once-mighty defense industry afloat.

After orders peaked at more than $2 billion a year early in this decade, Chinese arms deals with Russia shrank to almost nothing in 2006, and no major new contracts are in the pipeline, according to Russian, Chinese and U.S. defense experts.

In the meantime, Russia – which, with its economy booming, is no longer dependent on arms sales to China.

Some Chinese analysts suggest that Russia, the world’s second-ranked arms supplier behind the United States, is also concerned about the threat of competition from the Chinese defense industry.

Russian analysts estimate that arms deliveries to China from 1992 to 2006 were valued at $26 billion.

Total Russian arms exports over that period were estimated at more than $58 billion.

With a Western embargo on arms sales to China having been in place since the Tiananmen (1989), it was these weapons from Russia that allowed the People’s Liberation Army to reduce a yawning gap in technology and firepower.

Chinese experts say the army wants access to the most advanced Russian weaponry, including strategic bombers, tanks, attack helicopters and manufacturing technology for high-performance aircraft engines.

A decade ago, as military spending shriveled, a slump in orders from China would have been disastrous for Russian arms makers. That is no longer the case, with the Russian economy growing at 8.1 per cent on the back of rising energy and commodity exports, according to official economic statistics.

With Moscow running a budget surplus, there are orders in the pipeline to supply the Russian military with hardware that until recently could only be sold abroad. And overall arms exports remain buoyant, particularly to India, a long-term client that Moscow views with far less suspicion than China.

Russia has also signed lucrative arms deals with new customers including Algeria and Venezuela in recent years.

To add to Beijing’s frustration, some of the Russian transfers to India include weapons and technology that Moscow refuses to supply to China. Moscow and New Delhi agreed to begin the joint development of a new, so-called fifth-generation fighter, the Russian government announced in October.

This aircraft would be a potential rival in performance to the U.S. F-22 Raptor, defense analysts say.

India also agreed last year to buy another 40 Su-30MKI fighters from Russia for $1.5 billion in addition to an earlier order for 140 of these aircraft. Some military experts say this versatile, twin-engined jet is probably the best fighter and strike aircraft in the world. But Russia has not offered it to China. And Moscow is offering to sell India its latest fighter, the MiG-35.

In nuclear submarine technology, Russia has also been more generous with India than with China, naval experts say.

Still, with the Western arms embargo on China still in place, most analysts expect that Moscow and Beijing will eventually negotiate compromises.

via Russia and China rethink arms deals – The New York Times.

Probably the biggest break-point was when China offered a SU-27 aircraft in the international market.

Last year, Russian aircraft sales internationally topped $3 billion – second only to the US. But others too want a slice of the aviation pie.

Fake Su-27s are widely offered in the world arms market. “Sooner or later, Russian arms traders will face competition from the Chinese colleagues,” he told RT.

China was given the design plans for the Russian fighter jet in 1995, when it promised to buy 200 kits and assemble them domestically. After building 100 planes, the Chinese said the Russian plane did not meet specifications, only for a copycat version soon to appear – “Made in China” – without copyright.

The threat from China is real, and it will be difficult for the Russian aviation industry to maintain its lofty position, and soar further unless it manages to better protect its intellectual rights and also find new ways of co-operating with its eastern neighbor.

Although it made its maiden flight over 30 years ago, the Su-27 remains the bedrock of the Russian air force, and is highly popular abroad.

Some are calling for calm over the controversy. While the similarities between the two planes are clear, experts say the Chinese J11B does not have the latest Russian high-tech features and will be no match for it on the international market.

Chinese version of Russian jet endangers bilateral relations — RT.

Russia went to the extent of arresting a Chinese national in Russia on charges of industrial espionage – a rare event in Russia.

Russia‘s security service has revealed that it arrested a suspected Chinese spy who posed as a translator while seeking sensitive information on an anti-aircraft system.

The man, identified as Tun Sheniyun, was arrested on 28 October last year, the federal security service (FSB) said in a statement cited by RIA-Novosti news agency.

It was unclear why the FSB disclosed the arrest on Wednesday, less than one week before the prime minister, Vladimir Putin, travels to China on an official visit.

The alleged spy was acting “under the guise of a translator of official delegations”, the statement said.

He had “attempted to obtain technological and maintenance documents on the S-300 anti-aircraft missile system from Russian citizens for money”, it added.

Last year, Russia delivered 15 S-300 systems to China, a popular Soviet-era arms export, as part of a deal signed several years earlier.

Ruslan Pukhov, director of the centre for analysis of strategies and technologies, a defence thinktank in Moscow, said: “They [the Chinese] are trying to copy this system illegally. They’ve already copied a whole series of our weapons.

“They’re trying to clone the S-300, to serve their interests and also to export. As I understand it, it’s not all working out. They probably wanted extra documentation to better deal with this task of reverse engineering.”

Earlier this year, Ukrainian authorities jailed a Russian man for six years, claiming he was stealing military secrets to further China’s aircraft carrier programme.

In the past two years, Russian customs officials have also accused two Chinese citizens of attempting to smuggle spare parts for Russian fighter jets across the border.

Russia arrests Chinese ‘spy’ in row over defence weapons | World news | The Guardian.

Hat Tip

While China and Pakistan are pariahs in the international arms bazaar, India is a preferred customer. To India’s policy makers and handlers must go the credit for positioning India as a lead partner in the global arms bazaar.

Traditionally Russia has been a stable and safe partner for India. The US has usually avoided arms sales to India – fearing leakage of technology to Russia. However, for its latest F-35 stealth fighter, the US has decided to waive all its habitual hesitation. France, Italy, Israel, Sweden, Britain are all willing to sell any technology, product, service or components that India needs.

China is richer and Pakistan, more mercenary and desperate – yet …

Short, Little Man With A Big Dream

It has taken seventy years, and LB Shastri’s slogan of Jai Jawan, Jai Kisan is on the verge of coming true. For most of the last fifty years, India has been criticized for its slow decision-making, its exhaustive processes, its complex negotiations.

When Pakistan joined CENTO and US armed Pakistan. When Nixon met Mao. When Israel defeated the Arab alliance in the 1973 war. When Reagan ‘partnered’ with Pakistan to defeat the Soviets in Afghanistan. After each of these events, commentators lamented about India’s ‘missed’ chances and predicted disaster for the last fifty years. Yet after each decade, India has emerged a step ahead.

Who would have thought, seventy years ago …


37 Responses

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  1. J.S said, on October 30, 2012 at 6:41 am

    A very nice write up I must say, Anuragji ..and I agree with you for the most part. Only one thing that makes me anxious is the spinelessness of our leaders,this is not the time to be civil and peaceful. We are in need of a leader that barks,shouts,screams in the international forums to get the demands met. Also, the permanent solution to India’s immidiate neighbourhood is direct occupation of these wastelands. Sri Lanka, Porkistan,Afghanisthan, Bangladesh,Bhutan, Tibet, Nepal are all western constructs that must be bought back into the country. A few billions would be wasted in developing these lands, but India needs expansion, not only in SE Asia but also in the eastern borders. This task will require the media and “logical” thinkers to shut up for a few decades and let the military play it’s game. Strong leadership is needed to bring back united India and rebuild the Indian empire, from corners of middle east to the eastern asian region. Indian subcontinent should be Indian and Indian only. If that can happen, I would definitely consider our military to be developed and powerful.

    • Vinod said, on October 30, 2012 at 9:35 am

      Attacking neighbours doesn’t make any sense. Like Anuragji says, we have the potential to be at par with the top guns by 2025. By then, the world moves as well. India is playing catchup for the 150 years lost. A war with even small nation for us would be costly and end up as disastrous- the exact thing which other big powers want! I certainly don’t want Pakistan to be part of India, at least in the current shape it is in.

      What we need is education for the masses. The consciousness of the whole Indian Nation should be uplifted to the level that we are one. The decisions that come out of that will be best. Till that time, no wars unless it is for defence! As population increases, it would be stress on our environment. We need to get more people migrating.

      So, in my humble opinion, education and migration to new lands should be the focus! The path of military currently undertaken is satisfactory for now.

      • JS said, on November 1, 2012 at 3:18 pm

        I didn’t say it has to be now, what I was saying is, just having a large and technologically superior military is not enough to project hard power.It’s just like threatening a criminal to shoot with a tazer and actually shooting a criminal with tazer, criminals only give up when the latter is done to them. I clearly understand that pakistan,banglaesh and sri lanka are heavily supported by vested interests (namely US and UK), pakistan, after all, is a western construct. What I am suggesting is taking over these barren savage land back and re-pumping Indian blood through them is important to permanently fix the problem of islam in the subcontinent. These small islands have whored themselves out to outsiders and as a consequence, most of them are now a national security threat for us. Foreign policy needs to be shaped in such a manner that, by mid-2020s, these lands could be acquired and assimilated back within the Indian borders.

  2. panduranghari said, on October 30, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Sure, our military, our airforce, our navy, our scientists in all research organisations in India are GREAT. They really are. But look at the people who are the decision makers? Where did we go wrong? Why did we get to where we got? Who was responsible for this?

    I see this like a roll of dice, we got to where we got due to our luck due to centuries of being ‘not nosey’ in other peoples businesses. In India on a truck or a rickshaw we may have seen this slogan – I am where I am because of the kindness of my parents’. I think we have been lucky until now.

    However, seeing Indian politicos will do anything for money, the British govt. even got one Christian Reddy MP from Andhra Pradesh to bring out issue of impropriety with the deal on Rafale. As the ministers were not involved in the discussions and negotiations, there was no doubt in the mind of the Indian observer that this allegation wont stand.

    Reclaiming our territorial superiority is must. Even tiddly paupers like SL, Bangladesh, Pakistan can affect us and can issue us with ultimatums, is nothing but ridiculous. Who is SL to question India on Kundakulam? This is just one example.

    We need a good leader. The politicians want to create rifts, but is there anyone willing to think about the country first?

  3. Arak said, on October 31, 2012 at 1:29 am

    Anurag,

    Quite the rah rah piece quoting desi journals who have no clue about what they are writing when it comes to defense matters. I suggest an update article or part 2 on this issue after you visit trishul-trident.blogspot. Prasun Sengupta will re-educate you in the ways of indian defense more than anyone else out there on the WWW.

    • J.S said, on November 2, 2012 at 3:40 am

      Prasun is definitely not the most reiable person to depend on Indian military’s activities..

      • arak99 said, on November 2, 2012 at 4:17 am

        Please suggest someone who is reliable then. No, that isn’t Ajai Shukla or IDSA either or BR either.

        • Mand Buddhi said, on November 2, 2012 at 6:29 am

          @Arak99 – You forgot to add 3 important qualifications –

          1. He has to speak ill of India; nit-pick
          2. He must have a vested commercial interest (like Prasun)
          3. Preferably an NRI; who Desi-Mand-Buddhis adore.

          Commentators who do not bear the stigma of an Indian nationality most welcome – unlike Ajai Shukla, IDSA, BR.

          • J.S said, on November 2, 2012 at 6:59 am

            Ajai Shukla knows what he is talking about and is quite reasonable. BR is filled with NRI kids nowadays who don’t have a clue about the changes happening in the country,plus it has started to resemble more of these NRI forums than a national one. Also, a majority of them are tamils and therefore have a strict allergy to Hindi It is a gone case now, a forum filled with whiners and pessimists with no suggestions or interesting/informative debates to learn something from. IDSA is a pvt firm again filled with NRIs, so that makes me a little suspicious. arak, what I am saying is Prasun has been wrong numerous times and his blogs are filled with stupid rants. Also, avoid shiv error, err, aroor if possible, he is another maniac with vested interest who is always moaning about one thing or the other…

            • arak99 said, on November 2, 2012 at 7:09 am

              Anurag’s article was about defense capability from a development and manufacturing point and not from a national security standpoint. For that Prasun is a better resource in the “ways and means of the indian defense equipment development capability and production sector” than any of the other net posters. I did not claim Prasun was reliable, but that he could educate Anurag if Anurag could read between the lines and rants. Everyone has their axe to grind, and as long as you recognize that fact and read between the lines, you will come to the same conclusion I did.

              • J.S said, on November 2, 2012 at 7:15 am

                How about specifying what exactly must be read between the lines? No offence, I am asking this seriously. Anurag has still missed AMCA from the list. I agree this post sounds like a rant and a more detailed analysis may be needed

              • Mand Buddhi said, on November 2, 2012 at 1:12 pm

                @Arak /Arak99 – Presuming you both are the same person:

                1. Majority of the links on this post are NOT Indian. Of course, since Indian nationality is a stigma and confirms Arrested Mental Development Syndrome (AMDS), half of the links that are Indian should have been avoided.

                2.Anuraag is an Indian – and of course therefore has the same Arrested Mental Development Syndrome (AMDS) that you talk of. Wonder why is he allowed to say anything at all, about anything defeats me?

                3. Being afflicted by Arrested Mental Development Syndrome (AMDS), we Desi Mand Buddhi (DMB) don’t know how to read between the lines written by NRI-gyaanis like Prasun and understood by NRI-vigyaanis like Arak /Arak99.

                4. My DMB cannot understand one thing – How can a unreliable writer like Prasun educate Anuraag? How will a reader know what is truth, implied, reverse of truth, vested interest, competitive plant, misinformation, disinformation, wrong data?

                By reading between the lines, I presume.

                But then Arak /Arak 99 are you not forgetting we DMBs have AMDS?

              • J.S. said, on November 3, 2012 at 11:51 pm

                [quote]Anurag could read between the lines and rants. Everyone has their axe to grind, and as long as you recognize that fact and read between the lines, you will come to the same conclusion I did.[/quote]

                and that conclusion would be?

          • arak99 said, on November 3, 2012 at 12:01 am

            What is wrong in having a commercial interest? Why is it that Indians expect everyone other than themselves to come to the table with absolutely no interests whatsoever? Why is it they expect everyone in public life to be a saint? Get real, even saints have their own agendas, most folks just happen to be oblivious to it willingly until something like a Nithyananada sting happens.

            As long as you expect everyone at the table to have some agenda or the other, hidden or otherwise, and you figure out what their agenda is, you would be able to read between the lines to figure what they say is of value and what is BS because of their agenda. Grow up and grow some real balls.

            • J.S. said, on November 4, 2012 at 12:16 am

              Not sure where does “growing balls” part comes from, but anyways…
              arak, learn to read and interpret a comment before going full retard. Everyone has a hidden agenda, agreed, but can you then rely on the information they provide? especially information that the public cannot get without these mediums. You haven’t provided a counter view to the above writeup either. Just calling it “rah-rah” article and proclaiming the author to be ball less doesn’t explain why you disagree. As far as I can see, this article talks about improvement being made in the military, arguably the most ignored institution for the last 70 years. Govt. has finally started to spend money on a very very important sector, after all, if your defence is not upto the mark, you cannot save any other progresses made by the country. In that sense, this article proclaims that military is getting sufficiently beefed up for and will be adequately developed in the near future. Manufacturing and mass production is something that PSUs lack and are pathetically slow at, that I agree and would definitely want to change.

              Quote : “What is wrong in having a commercial interest? Why is it that Indians expect everyone other than themselves to come to the table with absolutely no interests whatsoever? ”

              It is definitely not ethical to spy on weapon systems that you are selling to your customers, like US does. I don’t see where commercial interest comes into this.It is more of moral issue than commercial one. As far as commercial issues are concerned, I am sure both the buyers and the sellers are competent enough to buy and sell only when a majority of their demands have been met. If a buyer or seller fails to do that, it’s arguably their own fault. Anuraag, again, hasn’t talked about this at all, so I don’t know why you felt the need to write this crap.

              Quote : “Why is it they expect everyone in public life to be a saint? Get real, even saints have their own agendas, most folks just happen to be oblivious to it willingly until something like a Nithyananada sting happens.”

              Stupidity has no limits isn’t it? Indians (all the 1.2 billion of them), are not all saints nor all of them expect others to be, I know ,live among and am a Indian and haven’t seen people who expect others to be a saint. The issue is that there are limits to backstabbing,cheating, providing false data, putting “strings”, spying in a deal and when those limits are crossed it is best to break the deal. Obviously people will complain when they are cheated…won’t you? I don’t see anything unique in that, that you attribute the entire Indian public to complaining, the last time I checked,people of every other country would be expected to give the same reaction when a friendly country stabs them in the back.

              Nithyanada was a stupid person and I don’t think entire sages,rishis and Mahatmas should be painted in a similar colour. Usually the saints that have agendas belong to the desert bloc or don’t have much of a following…

              arak, your commentaries are getting annoying and stupid now, clearly state what your problem(s)
              is/are with the article,so that we can address them and move along, this whining and rhetoric of yours won’t lead this argument anywhere.

              • Vishal said, on February 21, 2013 at 8:39 am

                Good one

  4. admin said, on October 31, 2012 at 5:30 am

  5. admin said, on November 2, 2012 at 1:31 pm
    1. Lloyd Hargrove
      Whilst cozying up to the Russians has historically never been a good idea, I doubt that India has to worry much about with regards to U.S. imperialist designs wanting to invade India, at least not in a military sense. BTW, all those high tech toys tend to become obsolete faster than last years iPhone. The problem is that when you have them, sooner or later some idiot wants to use them.

      Tue, Oct 30 2012 11:29:04
    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on November 2, 2012 at 2:21 pm

      cozying up to the Russians has historically never been a good idea

      There is merit in this.

      Look at the roster of US allies – Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Afghanistan Pakistan, Turkey.

      Now look at Soviet allies – Cuba, East Germany, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, Poland, or India and Vietnam.

      I doubt that India has to worry much about with regards to U.S. imperialist designs wanting to invade India, at least not in a military sense.

      I am sure millions of people in US-allied countries will agree.

      Take Pakistan for instance. Millions of Pakistanis will agree that the drones strikes which have killed a few hundred civilians is the act of a friendly, neigbourhood ally who is displaying classic tough love.

      when you have them, sooner or later some idiot wants to use them.

      Two questions.

      Which idiots are we talking about? US idiots or Indian idiots – or is it Pakistani, Chinese or Russian idiots?

      Two – What does one do, when an idiot attacks with these ‘toys’. Curl up and die? Like Pakistani civilians are doing?

  6. Lloyd Hargrove said, on November 2, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    A1. Any idiots, including the one currently ordering drone attacks. (Proof enough)

    A2. Sue! I suggest that there is a great civil case and possibly even a criminal case against whoever it is that is authorizing drone attacks particularly within the boundaries of sovereign nations which are not complicit with and do not authorize the use of such deadly force.

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on November 2, 2012 at 8:02 pm
      In response to A2.

      1. Are you suggesting that the victims of these drone attacks sue in Pakistani Courts? I imagine not. Even with the recently found independence by Pakistani judiciary, if it were the indict the US Govt, how would it ensure that the award is implemented?

      2. If it is the American judiciary that you are referring to, it is worse than the Pakistani judiciary. The American judicial system has, at the behest of the American Govt. imprisoned more people than the next 20 countries in the world put together. Is this the judicial system that will deliver?

      3. Are you suggesting that underaged children sue in courts (Pakistani or American) or is it that you are expecting grief-stricken, terrorised parents to sue?

      Can you enlighten us on the economics, mechanics, precedents, citations of such a recommendation?

      • Lloyd Hargrove said, on November 3, 2012 at 12:15 am

        Unfortunately I am not a lawyer licensed to practice in either country but one would think that some enterprising attorney or world active civil rights group would jump all over this if for nothing else than the attention it should get in the world press. Tell you what, I have some friends who might know the angles on such and if I find out something positive, I’ll let you know. This might have to involve a world court of some sort since there are individuals involved who claim to be acting in the interests of the U.S. in particular, but they are individuals never the less. Personally with no more information than I currently have, I would have to call this kind of thing a war crime but on a closer note the drone attacks have killed U.S. citizens including a minor (innocent) child who just happened to be visiting. Esquire magazine published an article on this: http://www.esquire.com/features/obama-lethal-presidency-0812-2 but the U.S. mainstream media who supports Obama regardless remains silent. This kind of thing will catch up with them at some point.

  7. arak99 said, on November 3, 2012 at 12:03 am

    J.S. and Mand Buddhi,

    WordPress does not allow me to reply to your replies to me. So create another post and I will reply to you.

    • Mand Buddhi said, on November 3, 2012 at 1:03 am

      @Arak /Arak – We DMBs with AMDS usually use blockquote to reply.

      But maybe such backward HTML ideas are conveniently below your NRI-vigyaani thinking.

  8. arak99 said, on November 3, 2012 at 12:04 am

    @Anurag,

    Mand Buddhi’s posts reminds me that you should do folks like Dinesh D’Souza and others like him ;-)

  9. J.S said, on November 3, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    Would like to read your reply arak.. post it in response to this post.

  10. admin said, on November 5, 2012 at 1:16 pm

  11. A fan of your content said, on November 12, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Excellent analysis, Anurag. I will add my bit here: For all you say, we still remain one of the largest arm importers, which from any viewpoint, is not a pleasant scenario. Who knows what the US and Russia will fit into these toys: GPRS sensors tracking the location of these aircraft real-time?

    India only needs to be prepared for a defensive posture. There is no threat to India in the medium term. Pakistan is not an existential threat. For all the talk of war, we can dismember them using our intelligence capabilities, even without war being conceived of, let alone being fought. This would be at a fraction of the cost of a full scale war. Around 5 billion dollars to RAW for their Pakistan division would be enough.

    Pakistan is best left to stew in it’s own juice. By embracing militant Islam, they have won us their war. We only need to stir the juice once a while. What should India do? Nothing. Talk peace, negotiate, play cricket, exchange musicians, but make no concessions. Pakistan is an irritant, not an existential threat. Our Islamic neighbor has lost it on a grand scale. Strengthen your Western defenses, seal your borders and keep growing. Within a generation, Pakistan will implode. All this talk of a stable Pakistan being in India’s interest is a load of dung.

    As for China, it’s hold on Tibet is tenuous, what will it achieve by aggression on India? We had a scenario a few years back when their President cancelled a foreign visit because a monk immolated himself in Tibet. Hardly the stuff of superpowers. Besides, since they have a larger internal security budget than defence budget, it is safe to assume that the CPC needs to look deep into the nature of it’s state rather than pick fights with neighbours.

    France and Britain are yesterday’s superpowers with no capabilities to wage global wars. Only the US has such capabilites these days. The battle with US will not be a military one. The US will try to dismember India through other means: Why is the Khalistan movement active in the West today? Any support from Canadian intelligence, CIA and MI6? We need to look hard at how we engage the West. Attempts to Christianize the North East have succeeded. Will it secede?

    To me it’s about sealing our borders and continue growing. Pinpricks like Srilanka, Nepal, Bangladesh should not deter us. All said and done, they are not existential threats. We need to work for peace for two decades and we would have arrived. The next four decades will be the best time to be in India. Our working lifetime is when we would have the best opportunities and hopes. Somehow we need to fix governance and ensure that our colonial shackles are removed. Our weakest link is our Government.

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on November 14, 2012 at 9:10 am

      For all you say, we still remain one of the largest arm importers, which from any viewpoint, is not a pleasant scenario.

      This can be read many ways.

      Russia and US are only countries that don’t depend on arms imports. But in the last few years, Russia bought some arms from Europeans – mainly to intimidate and push its domestic arms industry.

      Even the US is depending on foreign contributions to develop its JSF. US, the largest arms exporter in the world, practically funds its defense R&D by arms exports.

      Coming to India. In the last 30 years, India has been working on a moving target kind of defence development. Our prototypes are being constantly being upgraded to keep them current and near world-class. As our domestic industry evolves, we will be able to bring everything together – and bam – we will start productionizing our big-ticket items.

      Take the Kaveri engine. The current prototype is good at a power output of 50 kilonewtons (kN) of thrust. This makes it good enough to power many applications including any twin-engine fighter – like the fifth generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) project. But for a single-engine fighter, a much more powerful engine is needed. The GE414 is the best – and DRDO has decided that it will match the F414.

      Kaveri is at 50 kilonewtons (kN) / 80 kilonewtons (kN). GE414 is at 49 kilonewtons (kN) / 98 kilonewtons (kN) – with the EPE variant going to 120 kilonewtons (kN). Snecma M88 is sitting at 50 kilonewtons (kN) / 75 kilonewtons (kN); Eurojet EJ200 (derived from Rolls-Royce XG-40) is at 60 kilonewtons (kN) / 89 kilonewtons (kN). The Russian Klimov RD-33 is at 50 kilonewtons (kN)/ 81 kilonewtons (kN). All figures without / with after-burner outputs. Indian Air Force want engines to get (93-100kN) using after-burners – against current 80.

      Then there is the weight, fuel consumption parameters that will also need to be taken into account. On all these parameters – we are nearly there. But not as good as the best. So, the work continues. Of course, every other country knows this – and therefore does not succeed with extortionate pricing; exploitative terms and conditions. I have linked a Chinese analyst’s interview, where he explains the Indian approach. Very revealing. The Chinese have tried to take a short-cut by ‘copying’ old Russian and Western designs – without much success, a roadmap for the future.

      Now jet engines were developed in WWII – and countries like the US have been doing this stuff for nearly 80 years. India has working on it for 20 years. IAF refuses (correctly) to accept anything but the best – whether Indian or imported.

      Keep in mind your own reading of our defence reality – and you will agree that we have managed through a good mix of diplomacy and military means to keep our threats under control.

      Who knows what the US and Russia will fit into these toys: GPRS sensors tracking the location of these aircraft real-time?

      I think you mean GPS sensors.

      Actually, all major armed forces reveal their positions to their enemies all the time – to avoid tension and anxiety. With satellite surveillance, a few countries have a very good idea on what is happening.

      But, what could happen is something like the Stuxnet virus that affected Iran’s uranium enrichment equipment. Foreign components and software that can be ‘hijacked’ during war.

      India only needs to be prepared for a defensive posture. There is no threat to India in the medium term. Pakistan is not an existential threat. For all the talk of war, we can dismember them using our intelligence capabilities, even without war being conceived of, let alone being fought. This would be at a fraction of the cost of a full scale war. Around 5 billion dollars to RAW for their Pakistan division would be enough.

      This is what Pakistan claims we are doing in Balochistan.

      Pakistan is best left to stew in it’s own juice. By embracing militant Islam, they have won us their war. We only need to stir the juice once a while. What should India do? Nothing. Talk peace, negotiate, play cricket, exchange musicians, but make no concessions. Pakistan is an irritant, not an existential threat. Our Islamic neighbor has lost it on a grand scale. Strengthen your Western defenses, seal your borders and keep growing. Within a generation, Pakistan will implode. All this talk of a stable Pakistan being in India’s interest is a load of dung.

      Between 1850-1925, the last 2 great Islamic kingdoms were defeated by the West. Mughal (1857) and Ottoman (1920). For nearly the last 100 years, Islamic world is under Western dominance. The three main centres of Islamic power, Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan are all ruled by Western puppets.

      Iran, under Khomeini is the first Islamic State to break free – and the West does not want that.

      So, Pakistan against India is a Western construct – which diverts Pakistan and Islam from fighting the West.

      As for China, it’s hold on Tibet is tenuous, what will it achieve by aggression on India? We had a scenario a few years back when their President cancelled a foreign visit because a monk immolated himself in Tibet. Hardly the stuff of superpowers.

      There is an interesting history to this - which just shows how powerful Indian ideas like political-Buddhism (not the worship), remains relevant and powerful.

      Besides, since they have a larger internal security budget than defence budget, it is safe to assume that the CPC needs to look deep into the nature of it’s state rather than pick fights with neighbours.

      All those China-addicts should factor this point into their China story.

      France and Britain are yesterday’s superpowers with no capabilities to wage global wars. Only the US has such capabilities these days. The battle with US will not be a military one. The US will try to dismember India through other means: Why is the Khalistan movement active in the West today? Any support from Canadian intelligence, CIA and MI6? We need to look hard at how we engage the West. Attempts to Christianize the North East have succeeded. Will it secede?

      I wish Indians come out of the mass-media maya – and see the real threat. It is the West – with Liberal-Progressive and Christianity. Islam is a spent force – and popular Indian paranoia about Pakistan and Islam is misplaced.

      To me it’s about sealing our borders and continue growing. Pinpricks like Srilanka, Nepal, Bangladesh should not deter us. All said and done, they are not existential threats. We need to work for peace for two decades and we would have arrived.

      We have not arrived until full Bharattantra is re-established, with purushartha rights (kaam, artha, moksha and dharma) and safeguards of jan, jar and jameen (people, gold and land).

      But yes, our existential fears would have become lesser. Much lesser.

      The next four decades will be the best time to be in India. Our working lifetime is when we would have the best opportunities and hopes.

      Compared to the last 200 years.

      Somehow we need to fix governance and ensure that our colonial shackles are removed. Our weakest link is our Government.

      If you go by results, our leadership has done a great job.

      We have had to use fire-to-fight-fire. Desert Bloc systems will create corruption, crime, concentration of wealth. Blame the system. This system can only be ‘managed’. It cannot be healthy – ever.

      Our collective mirage that the system is good and leaders are bad is probably a big threat. Till we have Bharattantra, our governance cannot improve.

      • A fan of your content said, on November 14, 2012 at 4:44 pm

        Hi,

        Could not trace the Chinese analyst’s view of the Indian approach. But the insight of continuously refining prototypes to global standards is interesting. I could sense it in the case of the Cray supercomputer fiasco. During Rajiv Gandhi’s regime, the US refused to sell us the Cray XMP 14. The company itself is bankrupt now. Not to mention the fact that we could develop our own supercomputing capabilities with CDAC This will be repeated in the case of the cryogenic engines and other technologies. With increasing globalization, we should be there by 2025.

        I also had the idea that the imported toys could be fitted with malware that makes them useless in actual combat. Similar to STUXNET. Thanks for pointing this out.

        My perception of our existential fears is different. The Westphalian state model is nearing it’s expiry date. Which is probably why the EU experiment is underway. This Western construct cannot still engage large size states. Other than the USA, all the Anglo-European white powers are states the size of Indian states. Given that their global loot has lasted all these centuries, they are in a position till now to dominate global affairs. In a few decades, the West should be looking to keep itself relevant in a more flat world. Only the US can dominate global affairs. It currently makes no sense for any European power to engage any Asian power in a military conflict. All these nations are similar in terms of population and economics including Russia which is way too underpopulated to effectively guard it’s frontiers.

        Also the case for hard military power is receding. It is pointless in maintaining huge standing armies and defence expenditures in the absence of an actual threat of military hostilities. Even in the current case of US intervention in the Islamic world, overwhelming military strength has not given comprehensive victories in Iraq and Af-Pak. Something the West should worry about in a flatter world.

        We are now where we are inspite of our leadership. Let us be clear on that. It is the common Indian that we need to trust. That dark-skinned, sweat- smelling ordinary Indian who cannot speak good English. Not the IIT-IIM educated suit-wearing liars telling us how to manage our nation from far ashore.

        If the West has all the best educational institutions, why are they in a mess? Why can’t Cambridge, Oxford, LSE, etc. produce leaders in Britain who will put them back on the global stage?

  12. Chthonic Project said, on January 1, 2013 at 10:57 pm

    I am afraid you are too optimistic about our defense capabilities. You forgot one primary aspect of any defense deal that is struck between India and another nation: bribe. India is buying that grounded F-22 fleet from the USA. And India is buying it now, while the entire nation is focusing on a rape in a bus. Washington is pushing forward with this deal because they know it probably won’t go through once the Italian Gandhi-government falls from New Delhi. It will set us back by several billion dollars, and of course, rupture our relationship with Russia. But then, this is not the first time the Nehru-Gandhi clan has left India poorer.

    • ajamk said, on January 2, 2013 at 2:13 am

      Hey thanks for this info. Never knew about this. It’s funny how the media always misses out on important news. And we also know that media like NDTV, CNN, etc are in bed with the congress and other ‘sickularists’.

    • J.S said, on January 26, 2013 at 3:35 am

      wow, who told you this “secret” information ? This one really makes me laugh, we are already in a partnership with Russians for producing PAK-FA , why would we need F-22? Where is your source for that? There is no way the Indian govt.would rely on stingy US arms contracts for it’s main fighters. Maybe you should check your facts before teaching others about big words like “corruption”. F-22 has suffered through a lot of technical issues that has resulted in deaths of several US airforce pilots since 2005. US hasn’t even sold it’s “master” Israel the F22 technology, there is just no way they will sell it to us. This so-called billion dollars waste, is actually a much needed step, to enhance our capabilities. Maybe you are being too pessimistic and paranoid. Do state your sources before blabbering like an idiot.


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