2ndlook

Israel As A Country Model For India

Posted in Current Affairs, European History, India, Islamic Demonization by Anuraag Sanghi on October 25, 2008

Should India adopt a hard-line policy like Israel with ‘zero tolerance’ policy on ‘terrorism’.


Probably the best depiction of Israeli role in the world.  |  Cartoon by Jim Morin in Miami Herald  on February 17, 2012  |  Click for larger image.

Probably the best depiction of Israeli role in the world. | Cartoon by Jim Morin in Miami Herald on February 17, 2012 | Click for larger image.

Soft state … soft target

The Indian State has often been accused of being soft on terror‘soft on terror.’ We are frequently reminded how we should consider patterning India along hard lines like Israel – which has ‘zero tolerance’ policy on ‘terrorism’. As proof, the Israeli actions against the perpetrators of the Munich massacre. Or the capture of Eichmann. The air raid of Entebbe is another example that is referred to, with a glint in the eye.

Israel - The US Hatchet Man (Creative credit absent at source. Cartoon courtesy - http://www.science.co.il). Click for larger image.artoonist

Israel - The US Hatchet Man (Creative credit absent at source. Cartoon courtesy - http://www.science.co.il). Click for larger image.

Israel’s Tenuous Existence

The first disqualification against accepting the Israeli State model is the fact it is heavily dependent on America, for fiscal and military aid – “since 1974 totals roughly $80 billion” and an article from Daily Times Of Pakistan says enviously “The United States has poured $140 billion into Israel since its formation”. That is about a US$56,000 for every Israeli family.

After all, (as NYT says)

America has vital long-term strategic interests in the Middle East. The gulf has well over 60 percent of the world’s proven conventional oil reserves and nearly 40 percent of its natural gas.

To some it may look like a boon, but is surely the kiss of death.

American policymakers began regarding Israeli strength as an American asset in the Cold War, they supported significant aid as a matter of strategy, not charity. … American aid continues to flow to Israel. … critics on the opposite end of the political spectrum argue that while aid to Israel may be tied to the best of intentions, it does more harm than good to the Jewish State by propping up a big and inefficient government and making Israel dependent upon the U.S.

The Israel and USA tango - who is using whom!

The Israel and USA tango - who is using whom!

For how long can any country, society, individual survive on foreign largesse? Note how during the 1973, Arab Israeli War, the tide of battle finally turned when the massive US airlift of weapons, tanks, spares happened! Which itself, is self-serving – American assistance, emerging as a disjointed policy that urges a peaceful resolution to the conflict while boosting military aid to Israel.”

Another client state of US, Pakistan enviously records, that

Israel is the only country that receives all of its U.S. aid in a single package, while others only receive it in quarterly installments.” It continues, “Most recipients of military aid are obliged to spend it in the US but Israel is permitted to spend 25 percent of what it receives to subsidize its own defence industry,”…

Israel’s Future With Its Neighbours

The biggest Israeli failure is the state of permanent hostility it has engendered in the neighbourhood. Israel’s dysfunctional relationship with its neighbours has taken significant efforts from Israel – possibly, based on its superior ‘European’ extraction.

The Israel and USA tango - who is using whom!

The Israel and USA tango - who is using whom!

How long can Israel depend on US support which since

“1982, … has vetoed 32 Security Council resolutions which were critical of Tel Aviv, a number that exceeds the total number of vetoes exercised by all other permanent member states put together.”

American support may change (linked to American decline?) with time – but Israel’s neighbourhood is not changing!

The Persecution of Palestinians

The logic for the creation of Israel was persecution of Jews in Europe. Within 10 years, the same ‘persecuted’ Jews, allied themselves with their former persecutors and invaded Egypt – precipitating the Suez Crisis. Thus the very logic of the creation of the Israeli state was corrupted within 10 years.

The subsequent occupation of neighbouring territories was a continuation of this policy of aggressive expansionism based on European and later American support.

Israeli Style Of Justice

Israel’s population is less than Pune

Pune’s official population of 45 lakhs is close to Israel’s population of 72 lakhs.

The only logic for Israeli policy is the probable Israeli intention. Is it that they are not staying in the neighbourhood after (or when, if you prefer) American aid ceases?

India with a population of 110 crores, has no such option.


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28 Responses

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  1. Mari said, on January 6, 2009 at 5:09 pm

    Its almost scary to admit it. I have been thinking about that for
    the past years, and sertainly now with the cleansing of Palestinians, and
    of course the racism…it starts to remind me about the nazi – regime.

    This reminds me of the extreme nationalists that started their percecution of the jews aronound seventy years ago. Its really hurtful to see this extremism coming back.
    Im not saying that islamic regimes doesnt do the same kind of extremism, because in fact Iran for instance legalize Holocaust – denial, and of course theres very little democrazy in these countries, but still: I think Israels way of supporting freedom of speech is just to injust.

    And I tell you I am half arab, and I am very interested in learning about the terrors of the Holocaust, Ive been against it all my life. I used to watch a lot of documentarys about it those three years ago, and I think it is important for everyone to learn.

    But that goes for the Israelis as well. No one should be excused in permitting things like genocide.

    YES the jews where percecuted for several years especially by the catholic church.

    Now thats horrible, but people need to learn from it in even todays society, whoever they are.

  2. Anuraag Sanghi said, on January 7, 2009 at 3:09 pm

    Mari – The State of Israel is using the Holocaust for its own political ends – and learnt no lessons from that.

    Consider: –

    1. Along with the Jews in Nazi concentration camps, were the Roma Gypsies. The Roma Gypsies were not as organized or prosperous as the Jews – and hence have not been able to get any justice for the last 70 years. Does the State of Israel have any empathy for those who have suffered along with them? None whatsoever.

    2. The treatment of the Palestinians by Israel is matter of national shame. To see Israel become the cat’s paw of the US in the Middle East is an inversion of the logic used to create the State of Israel.

    3. These aspects of the Israeli behaviour makes me doubt Israeli intentions. US support cannot continue ad infinitum, and their response after they stop getting using US support will be interesting.

  3. Collaterally Damaged said, on January 25, 2009 at 10:05 am

    Short and sweet. Though a question lingers – Britain colonised India and via deliberate political-economic policies plundered its resources and oppressed the indigenous people, should we call this – oppression by British India (or in a more drastic version, assuming India part of Britain, as claimed by the then rulers, oppression by Britain) against its own native population or should we call it British colonial/imperial oppression of (or simply British oppression of ) India, if we go for the latter we accept the foremost and inalienable right of the natives on their land. Not only this, if we go with the latter, thus deny the legitimacy of the British colonial rule in India. Though we inadvertenly reject this logic when it comes to Palestine by accepting Israel as a legitimate state and not as American-European colony imposed on the Palestine by the racist anti-semite American-European Christendom.

  4. Anuraag Sanghi said, on January 26, 2009 at 1:54 pm

    I think the answer to your question is the difference between legality and legitimacy. The State of Israel was formed after many legal manoeuvrings – which still does NOT make it legitimate. Legitimacy will be derived from its treatment of its (and other) people and citizens.

  5. Collaterally Damaged said, on January 28, 2009 at 1:43 pm

    @ Anurag – “The State of Israel was formed after many legal manoeuvrings- which still does make it legitimate.” – so was Britsh Empire installed in India with all the fanfare after 1857, by the Government of India Act 1858, legal? yes if we accept the Brits’ right to decide the fate of India and their brown subjects. Similarly, was installation of Israel in Palestine legal? yes if we accept Brits’ right to decide the fate of its mandate (read colony). But a thumping no if we stand with the indgenous people for their inalienable right to decide the fate of their lands. Legality always serves the class which designs its definition.

  6. Anuraag Sanghi said, on January 28, 2009 at 1:59 pm

    CD – A million apologies.

    I missed out the most important word – which is NOT. I have added that now.

    The State of Israel may be legal, which to me is worthless discussion, if the State indulges in illegitimate activity.

    And the Israeli attempts to suppress the Palestinians is MOST definitely, illegitimate.

  7. Collaterally Damaged said, on January 28, 2009 at 2:20 pm

    @ Anurag – Cheers mate, keep up the good work, you’re bringing together a plethora of disparate info regarding South Asia (or India, Hind, Bhaarat or whatever one prefers to call it).

  8. admin said, on March 16, 2012 at 1:03 pm

  9. Sajith Sasidharan said, on April 18, 2012 at 6:25 am

    A Jaundiced view on Israel

    Disagree with u on many issues-Israel’s population of 75lakhs tht could migrate&American aid reason for Israeli success.
    #The fact of the matter is American Aid has its limits-the ingenuity,drive&partriotism of Israeli Jews is the Gamechanger,for eg take the case of the Pakistanis-during the Indo-Pak war 1971 Americans supplied Pak with the best Fighter crafts-still It was Indian Jaguars that flew in Pak Air space and destroyed bases-ingenuity,drive and hardwork can never substitute for aid.
    #Classic leftist nehruvianism whey u twist facts-to say American Aid responsible of Israeli success in wars,etc-a farce completely out of tune with current developments
    #Israeli ingenuity in Water Nanotechnology&Solar energy,Defense systems(UAV’s) beats almost every body,Its intelligence agencies are feared for their precision&reliability-something which RAW&IB clearly were misfits for the job-sitting ducks when 26/11 happened-it was nothing but an act of war-when a fidayeen hit squad from Karachin port with Pak backing-came into Mumbai(and we did not even give a damn-Oh then there was Headley who roamed India even stayed in Kochi,Shameful&regretful that it was the Americans who finally caught&informed us- Our Intell still slept-irresponsible brats)
    #Much more advances In Israel missile defence systems,Agriculture(my friend who is a professor in the Agriculture University in kerala finished 16 months of training In Israel-water Harvesting technologies-he has even stared his own horticultural lab(green technology with Israeli expertise).And by the Way Water is the biggest Middle east flash point of the future-see the Israeli foresight,vision in securing a security status for their nation.
    #A shocking contradiction in ur write up-75 lakh jews of Israel will move out from Israel after American Aid ceases-is best not to be contested-A cut ,copy,Paste of a Nehruvian mindset which see not Islamic terror but Israeli jews(75 lakhs in all-equating that to pune)as the scare mongers-well one more question see the Islamic tolerance in the Middle east on these 75 lakh jews(aka Israel in the Middleeast),but the same Muslims talk of human rights,democracy in India-minorities are not only within nation states,but also minority nation states for eg Israel ,sadly nehruvian secualrism has confused you.
    #The Kargil war according to latest Experts with Pakistan was pretty close-Indian army’s ammunition was replenished due to Israel, and Israel technology and weapons increasingly utilised-Israel India’s only reliable partner-what more proof do u want!!!
    #Israeli is a model state for India atleast after 26/11-Indian Nehruvians fumed with no gas-Hafiz saeed made a mockery of the Indian state!Pakistani judicial commission made a fool of the entire process-and India now thinking of letting go of siachen-in exchange for MFN status from Pakistan-Indian Govt and Indian MEA ,left nehruvian are dreamers in Fantasy land & a bunch of Laggards-Elitistic retards
    #Ajmal Kasab still lives-part of a fidayeen squad whose main aim was to kill&take no prisoners-India treats him with kid Gloves-Shameful and utterly despicable
    #Ajmal kasab should have been tried out in a Military court in India-a terrorist-he should have been dispatched to paradise(a date with the Supreme God- for me it is hell-Kiilling 200 people with impunity and destroying the lives of many people-remember a girl from Pune-daughter of fruit seller who lost her legs during the fidayeen attack in Mumbai 26/11-she being already poor and her father struggling-was disallowed admission in a English medium school-what about this girl’s future-an innocent bystander? but India still mouth platitudes&democratic rules- Sissies really!
    #Whether Israel is a model or not-Indian meekness dealing with Pak-that exports terror-is shocking-inviting Zardari for a buffet!and round the panel discussions on CNN-Ibn and NDTV by Pakistan experts,former babus,IFS retirees,Journalists(sissies from HT especially the ones like that of Vinod Sharma),Javed Akthar,Mahesh Bhatt-saying India and Pakistan-Aman ki Asha- nothing but a big tamasha but Elites of India sitting in their closest enjoying high tea,buffets,kebabs,sufi music with Pakistan delegates,anchors etc-they do not care for ordinary Indians who have been killed or will be killed in future terror attacks.

    My final point probably intellectuals can still sing paens etc- I have nothing to say about them-but Israeli foresight,patriotism,love for their land and security for their Citizens-is something ordinary India(indians like me)want India to emulate-it is ordinary Indians who die out there-not closeted Arm-chair intellectuals.

    Ending with an onliner from a bollywood movie-enacted by Naseeruddin Shah-We are resilient by Force not by Choice- Sadly we still are

    Thank your

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on April 18, 2012 at 10:50 pm

      Sajith Sasidharan –

      There are a couple of things that are in order before coming to the points you raise.

      1. India is the No.1 country that has been sympathetic to the Israeli cause – more than any other country in the world – which was confirmed by an Israeli survey.

      2. To most Indians the story of Israel comes to us via books like Exodus by Leon Uris. Propaganda practitioners and PR gurus like Edward Gottlieb and Howard Dietz embraced the Zionist cause and promoted the idea of the State of Israel. Edward Gottlieb, a PR pioneer, author of a PR primer book, worked on the cause of Israel. Edward Gottlieb’s masterstroke was to send Leon Uris to Israel to ‘research’ the story of the Exodus. Howard Dietz, the publicist of Sam Goldwyn, (reputedly behind many of Goldwyn’s malapropisms)was another.

      3. I have no clue where Nehruvian ‘ideology’ came in! Even if I am using Nehruvian ideology, on what count is it lesser than Zionist ideology? In fact looking back at 65 years, Nehruvian system have been more successful than Zionist ideologies.

      4. Coming to specific points that you raise: –

      American Aid has its limits-the ingenuity,drive&partriotism of Israeli Jews is the Gamechanger,for eg take the case of the Pakistanis-during the Indo-Pak war 1971 Americans supplied Pak with the best Fighter crafts-still It was Indian Jaguars that flew in Pak Air space and destroyed bases-ingenuity,drive and hardwork can never substitute for aid.

      Please check out how the Arab Israeli War of 1973 was fought on the basis of American airlift of arms and ammunition. Also check the quantum, conditionalities of aid to Israel and Pakistan respectively. So, this comparison between Israel and Pakistan is completely unequal.

      Israeli ingenuity in Water Nanotechnology&Solar energy,Defense systems(UAV’s) beats almost every body,Its intelligence agencies are feared for their precision&reliability

      Please read the embedded post on how America supports, funds Israeli defense.

      RAW&IB clearly were misfits for the job-sitting ducks when 26/11 happened-it was nothing but an act of war-when a fidayeen hit squad from Karachin port with Pak backing-came into Mumbai(and we did not even give a damn

      Pls check out how Mumbai compares with global benchmarks on terrorist incidents. Your point obviously misses out why Israel suffered Munich, Entebbe, or why Israel suffers from terrorist violence every week.

      While on the 26/11, let us look at the probable American role – predicted by a 2ndlook reader 4 years ago.

      Kargil war according to latest Experts with Pakistan was pretty close-Indian army’s ammunition was replenished due to Israel, and Israel technology and weapons increasingly utilised-Israel India’s only reliable partner

      India really had only one partner! USSR.

      Israel is a vendor of arms and ammunition to India. If they are a good vendor, India will buy. So, where is the issue, problem, objection, qualification in this!

      Are you implying that that Israel is doing this for love – and not for money?

      You have also not given any details of who these experts were, which these studies that you quote. Are you expecting me to believe your pro-Israeli exhortations blindly – like you do!

      Ajmal Kasab still lives-part of a fidayeen squad whose main aim was to kill&take no prisoners-India treats him with kid Gloves. Ajmal kasab should have been tried out in a Military court in India-a terrorist-he should have been dispatched to paradise(a date with the Supreme God- for me it is hell-Kiilling 200 people with impunity and destroying the lives of many people-remember a girl from Pune-daughter of fruit seller who lost her legs during the fidayeen attack in Mumbai 26/11-she being already poor and her father struggling-was disallowed admission in a English medium school-what about this girl’s future-an innocent bystander? but India still mouth platitudes&democratic rules- Sissies really!

      I hope that Kasab does not hang or is not shot!

      I hope he rots all his life in a jail – chakki peesing, chakki peesing!

      I like the way Mahabharata War was fought. First time Duryodhana tried to kill Pandavas by covert means in the lac palace. Pandavas kept their peace. Next they fought a virtual war – in the game of dice. Pandavas were still growing up.

      During their 13 years in exile Pandavas gathered arms (from Shiva, Indra, etc.), allies, wisdom from Dhaumya. Then was Krishna’s embassy of peace.

      After that war!

      War is an expensive affair – and usually means many people are killed. People who are not at risk usually clamor for war! No soldier wants war!

      • A Fan of Your Blog said, on April 19, 2012 at 2:25 pm

        Hi Anuraag,

        What Israel has achieved is no mean feat. Israel is much like India, the only difference is the political will of the people. They stand united against all threats to their nation. We are a divided country, with many different internal agendas. Much of Israel’s progress is because they stand united as a nation. If you have followed the news of killing of a major Hamaas leader in Dubai several years ago, it shows how Israel can execute a very complex operation and take care of its interests. An equivalent would be RAW going to an Islamic nation (Pak or otherwise) and taking out Dawood or the new idiot on the block who has been in the news a lot lately. Does India have the courage to run such a covert operation? No. I am not talking about RAW here, I am talking about our political leadership.

        You use the analogy of Mahabharat. I don’t see a Sri Krishn anywhere on the horizon, do you? Where does suffering of India end? And why should India be shy in engaging a war to take care of its own interests? And I am also appalled that you do not subscribe to hanging of Kasab. On one hand, you draw an analogy with Mahabharat and on the other, you want Kasab to be chakki peesing. Is he really peesing chakki? No. He is the government ka jamaai and we are spending crores on his protection. What the Mahabharat teaches us is that it is ok to kill to uphold dharma. Even if those who are killed are your own blood. Was that message somehow lost on you?

        While I do not wish to pick on you per se, and have great respect for your scholarship, I am deeply bothered by your views on this topic. So, please clarify.

        • Anuraag Sanghi said, on April 24, 2012 at 5:06 am

          If you have followed the news of killing of a major Hamaas leader in Dubai several years ago, it shows how Israel can execute a very complex operation and take care of its interests.

          After 65 years of killing, has Israel got any closer to peace with its neighbours? This preoccupation of killing small rats or big rats while cannibals roam freely worries me.

          An equivalent would be RAW going to an Islamic nation (Pak or otherwise) and taking out Dawood or the new idiot on the block who has been in the news a lot lately. Does India have the courage to run such a covert operation? No. I am not talking about RAW here, I am talking about our political leadership.

          Is it that some poor Indian soldier must go and kill other people so that you can boast, where it matters to you? So that you can feel important, in some foreign land? So that it fills a void in your self-esteem?

          Must India must prove to you that we are capable of matching Israel. Must India match up to the actions of any or all countries every day, every week, every year.

          After 65 years of its ‘modern’ existence, India has seen off many such ‘challenges’.

          Where does suffering of India end? And why should India be shy in engaging a war to take care of its own interests?

          Any quantitative data on India’s ‘suffering’?

          Thank you so much for your supercilious concern. Not needed. Not wanted. With one of the largest defence budgets in the world, why do you believe that India is shy? Or is it that India must wage war every day to satisfy your need to boeast?

          I am also appalled that you do not subscribe to hanging of Kasab.

          Kasab is baby rat. Not even a full grown rat.

          What benefit or use will it be to waste time thinking, talking, analyzing such baby rats. These rats have their Daddy Rats. These Daddy Rats are being nurtured on Rat Farms. The people who are managing Rat Farms are being paid by someone. That is where the War must go. Till such time, we dont have the capacity to win such a war, we should ‘manage’.

          And not gain ‘satisfaction’ by killing baby rats.

          I think an essential pre-qualification for any one wanting war, is that they should enlist. Asking anyone to go fight, to fill a need for missing machismo is a rather argument.

          Coming especially from people who have given up on India.

          • A Fan of your blog said, on April 24, 2012 at 2:56 pm

            After 65 years of killing, has Israel got any closer to peace with its neighbours? This preoccupation of killing small rats or big rats while cannibals roam freely worries me.

            Kasab is baby rat. Not even a full grown rat.

            What benefit or use will it be to waste time thinking, talking, analyzing such baby rats. These rats have their Daddy Rats. These Daddy Rats are being nurtured on Rat Farms. The people who are managing Rat Farms are being paid by someone. That is where the War must go. Till such time, we dont have the capacity to win such a war, we should ‘manage’.

            And not gain ‘satisfaction’ by killing baby rats.

            So what rules/ethics/thinking/principles say that we should let the baby rats roam freely and only go after the big rats? If rats are a menace (using your hypothesis), why leave the small ones alone and go after the big ones and let the small ones get big? What kind of an insipid, inane, twisted analogy is this? Sorry, I don’t buy this crock.

            Is it that some poor Indian soldier must go and kill other people so that you can boast, where it matters to you? So that you can feel important, in some foreign land? So that it fills a void in your self-esteem?

            Must India must prove to you that we are capable of matching Israel. Must India match up to the actions of any or all countries every day, every week, every year.

            After 65 years of its ‘modern’ existence, India has seen off many such ‘challenges’.

            Who is talking about boasting? Why do you think this has anything to do with my self-esteem or yours? You brought up Mahabharat in your original response, yet no reference to it in your new response. Hmm. Interesting. You want to pretend that all is hunky dory, by all means, go ahead. The proof is in the pudding. Despite the mightiness of India that you profess here, if you just read the daily newspapers, you will see many things wrong. Should we just gloat about how great we are, or should we look to make India better?

            Also, by your logic of “poor Indian soldier must go and kill other people”, why even have any poor Indian soldiers. We should scrap the armed forces and let everyone go home. In any case, Nehru was not a big fan of the armed forces. Let’s just go do Hindi-Chini and Hindi-Pak Bhai Bhai again and lose some more land to both China and Pak.

            When it comes to doing the right thing and upholding Dharma, keep your emotions out and do what it takes. A message from Mahabharat that is lost on you. Again.

            I think an essential pre-qualification for any one wanting war, is that they should enlist. Asking anyone to go fight, to fill a need for missing machismo is a rather argument.

            Coming especially from people who have given up on India.

            Since you are getting personal, let me get personal too. Somewhere in all your gloating about how India is superior to every other country and culture in the world, I see a deep sense of insecurity. I don’t see any other reason to pull every single country down and repeating the same hypothesis over and over. India is great. That does not mean you pull every other country down. Look up the GDP per capita numbers and think about where we are today. And appreciate some of the work that others have put in to get where they are today. I know what you will say — Oh, they got where they are because of slavery. Ok. 🙂

            And who has given up on India? Don’t act like you know me. Just because you live in India and I live abroad does not make you any more of an India lover than me. India is not my baap ki jaagir nor yours. I am not interested in this “whose dick is bigger” contest with you. Sorry.

            I am also not interested in such caustic debates. You can delete this post of mine, or respond however you want and claim victory. I won’t be responding. Sad to know that I did not learn a higher level of thought on this topic from your response, which is what I expected given your scholarship.

            • Anuraag Sanghi said, on April 24, 2012 at 3:13 pm

              Since you are getting personal

              AFOYB – Your comment represents the ‘best’ of this NRI thinking. Hence I had to nail this thought pattern. You will agree that I know next to nothing about you, to get personal. It is definitely the idea that you were espousing which deserves to be trashed. Either you can get protective about this idea – or take a 2ndlook.

              As you know on 2ndlook we dont trash or delete disagreement.

              Coming to the main point!

              All these NRIs who are so busy making recommendations on what India and Indians should do quietly slink away when it comes to their own.

              Many in fact join in the attack.

              Look at the cases of Alexander Jon, Rajat Gupta, Vikram Buddhi – or the Rajarathinam (a proxy Indian) cases. In all these cases, these four people are being prosecuted /jailed under ‘discrimnatory’ sentencing, ‘exceptional’ prededents. And what do you thing all these wisdom-spouting NRIs are doing.

              Sweet nothing at all.

              • A Fan of your Blog said, on April 24, 2012 at 9:10 pm

                You seem to have a very narrow view on NRIs. There are many NRIs who are actively promoting India, Indian businesses and supporting NGOs. One of the big contributing members here on this blog wrote a whole fricking book on the 1857 uprising and you have highlighted his work. The examples you gave of NRIs being prosecuted, what is your point? There are a few bad apples. So? For every bad example you can give me, I will give you 100 good examples of NRIs who are supporting a cause, donating money or their time with no expectation in return. So what?

                I do not need to tell you or anyone else how I support India. I do it because I get satisfaction out of it, and not to showcase or boast. So get off your high horse. Just because you live in India does not make your contributions any more or less than anyone else’s. Just because people left India does not mean they left because they hated living there. When you live away from your mother (for a job, for example), do you do so because you hate her?

                Having said that, the central premise of my original post was that we need to do a better job protecting our own interests. Please show me one post where I have spouted wisdom and made condescending recommendations. I look at Indians as us. Not them. India’s problems are our problems. And I see no issue in pointing them out, because they are my problems too.

                Now let’s discuss what we were discussing. You said we should go after the big rats. Pray tell what we are doing about that. Dawood is in Pak for a looong time. Hafiz Saeed is still delivering his hate speeches. We have evidence of Pak involvement in Mumbai attacks. We send dossier after dossier to Pak, yet they do nothing. Pak is still a menace in Kashmir. We are losing territory to China everyday. Both continue to be a thorn in our side. And what have we done? Nothing. The least we can do is hang Kasab and Afzal Guru to make a statement and we are serious about terrorism. Our President has time to usurp land in Pune, but no time to work through the long list of people who are waiting on the death row. Why? All we do is complain to the US, who knows how to protect only its own interests. Why can’t we address our own problems ourselves?

                So what idea are you looking to thrash again?

              • Anuraag Sanghi said, on April 25, 2012 at 6:35 am

                The examples you gave of NRIs being prosecuted, what is your point? There are a few bad apples. So? For every bad example you can give me, I will give you 100 good examples of NRIs who are supporting a cause, donating money or their time with no expectation in return. So what?

                Your above statement makes me believe you have not read and understood what I am saying.

                At all.

                We can continue later.

  10. manu said, on April 25, 2012 at 6:58 am

    Being an NRI i will agree to the view point that NRIs cant see any ills in their country of domicile….. In recent years the financial crisis has been a hot topic for most of us … But I don’t see any criticism about the bank bailouts money printing and out right theft that is taking place in the name of solving it from USA to Europe… But I do hear a lot on gov of india propping up Air India etc…. Personally i think there is a sense of fear/apprehension that we might be branded unappreciative guests if we criticise the land of residence

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on April 25, 2012 at 7:45 am

      If it stopped there, I would have lesser issues. As I see it there are three parts to this behaviour.

      Better Indians

      The bigger issues is that quite a few of these people believe that they are Better Indians than us – much like the British or Germans think that they are better Aryans than us. They sincerely believe that they know better.

      My suggestion – start walking, increase speed, start running … fast – and then jump.

      Not Good enough

      Secondly, it is belief that they have right to suggest what India should do.

      They know better.

      They have been to ‘superior’ cultures – and succeeded. Hence they know better.

      Classic was the case of the Nobel Prize winner Venkat-something from Baroda. His contemptuous prescriptive reaction when some desis reached out to congratulate him, was classic.

      Recently, another NRI commented how Indian handling of 26/11 was not good enough. Every measurement against similar international incidents suggests the opposite.

      These NRIs believe that India and Indians must reach some undefined, arbitrary standards to be good enough.

      Intellectual Vacuum

      Most dont have two ideas good enough to rub against each other.

      Predictably, most suggest that we should

      1. Fight wars with Pakistan,
      2. Become an Israel clone,
      3. Compete with and copy China;
      4. Nehru and socialism was bad; capitalism is good;
      5. Learn and study at the feet of Western Masters; etc.

      For a minute, ignore the ‘merit’ of these ‘ideas’. The important thing is that these ideas are predictable, shaped by Western prescriptions for India – and rejected in India, for some credible reasons.

      The implication – Indians are inferior and need to learn from others. Try hard enough and you can learn something from anyone. Meaningless advice.

      Arguably, the above 5 ideas are ‘better’. But public policy is something that plays out over the decades – and at one point, one must simply trust.

      The issue is mainly with NRIs in Western countries. Usually, these reactions dont from Indians in Africa, Gulfees, etc.

      However, whenever, they have a problem in the country of their current domicile, they come back to mama, crying. With righteous indignation. We poorer desis are supposed to bail them out. Like in Australia. Which we will.

      But what do we get in return? Contempt and disrespect.

      What do these superior Western NRIs do when their colleagues are in trouble? Nothing!

      Classic is the case of Vikram Buddhi. 25 lakh Indians in the US have kept quiet. Even assuming that safety was a good enough reason, a few million dollars for legal aid would have seen Vikram Buddhi through. Maybe US$50 from say 1 lakh of these NRIs would have been good enough. When I created a Facebook page for Vikram Buddhi, what was the NRI response. Zilch. Zero.

      Vikram Buddhi’s father has only the Indian Government to go to. Why cant the NRIs take care of their own?

      Contemptible.

      • manu said, on April 25, 2012 at 8:05 am

        🙂 I agree…. And Migrants from whole of the sub continent, indochina and china have these traits(sense of superiority over the natives of homeland)…. But isn’t it clear as to why we ask india to be like some other country….Since the time we get of the boat we are trying to ‘fit’ ‘conform’ a.k.a follow the system of the new country… We want you to do the same…
        We like the gora sahab … gora sahab has nice clean roads and pavements… 24hr electricity and water…. No queues in the land of the developed…. We want you to have all that don’t you see it …. Our suggestions are for your own good…..
        We are just followers anuraag…. we are not gandhi to stand up and create our own way of protest in a foreign land…

        • manu said, on April 25, 2012 at 8:13 am

          Just coz you raised australia… It was the mass protest in the middle of melbourne by the indian students that got the establishment to acknowledge the problem….or the taking of shirts and stopping traffic again in melbourne by the indian taxi drivers that got them compulsory protective screens in the taxis and other safeguards… One of the newspapers did say that these indians are rewriting the rules on how to protest…

          • Anuraag Sanghi said, on April 25, 2012 at 7:35 pm

            I have linked the various media reactions during the Australia posts. It might be a good idea to link this post that you refer to.

            What you say adds to the point that I am making!

            The taxi-drivers were alone.

            Did Indians doctors, lawyers, bankers, corporate executives join in? I guess not!

            My own research on the reactions displayed that most prosperous Indians echoed the Australian establishment’s viewpoints. But, being on the ground there, you may have more information than I have.

        • Anuraag Sanghi said, on April 25, 2012 at 7:43 pm
          Forget Gandhiji!

          Just check out the story of United States v. Bhagat Singh Thind. Related to that is the story of Komagata Maru. Even the Gadar party is an inspiring story. These people were also from India. They also made their way to these Western countries for economic reasons.

          The only difference was that there was no GoI to back them. And the Western establishment was much more anti-Brown then.

          • manu said, on May 12, 2012 at 1:42 am

            Whats your take on NRI Rajiv Malhotra… Very close to your views on of of things

            • Anuraag Sanghi said, on May 13, 2012 at 12:11 am

              I have read very little of him.

              His position and approach seemingly is ‘Hinduism’ is a better religion than other religions’.

              How would you react to that?

              His work on the American school syllabus was useful.

      • A Fan of your Blog said, on April 25, 2012 at 4:57 pm

        Okay, now that you have gotten all your generalizations off your chest, it must feel pretty good, huh?. Good to know of your biases, Anuraag. Nice going.

        Please look through all my previous posts on Bharat tantra. Please note that I have mentioned several times that it is a far better system of governance than the desert bloc ideologies. And I have also asked you how do we find the way to implement them. Unfortunately, not many (even in India) find value in such models. Our PM is Cambridge educated. Our Home Minister and Minister of Education are from Harvard. And you think NRIs want to preach how the West is better? What about our own people? Go to any city in India, and if people want to show they are educated, they start spouting English. My kids speak my native tongue better than kids growing up in India. And we practice Indian middle class values better. Thank you very much!

        You have mentioned the 5 ideas. Ok. Are only NRIs asking for these? Are not Indians living in India also asking for them? So what do you say to those folks? Why pick on NRIs alone? Why do you think we ask for these because we feel superior? Rather than debating those ideas, and saying why we should or not do them, you are dismissing them with a broad brush. Shooting the messenger? Throwing the baby with the bath water? Need more cliches?

        You mention another bad apple: Nobel prize winner who spouted some BS and now all NRIs are painted with the some brush? What gives, man?

        If anything, your post exposes your own biases against NRIs, and nothing about NRIs. If you know anything about humans, they come in all shapes, sizes and ideologies. That applies to people in India, and people who left India. Are all Indians living in India the same? So why are all NRIs the same?

        One of the greatest traits of Bharat tantra is its diversity. We had myriads of ideologies on knowledge and salvation and healthy debates on which ones were better. This intellectual curiosity attracted scholars from all over the world to debate and learn. And now you are kicking your own brothers and sisters just because they chose to do exactly that and go abroad and live there. Why this “us versus them”? Whatever happened to tolerance to diverse views? Whatever happened to “Vasudaiva kutumbakam”?

        I set up an NGO to help with education for children from economically backward families, and all my donors have been white people and NRIs. No one in India has contributed. So, now do I ask, “Why can’t you take care of your own people in India and why can’t Indians who live in India contribute to the betterment of their fellow beings? Why do we have so many people who need education but no one is helping them?” I will never ask that question. What kind of twisted logic is this? I do it because it gets me satisfaction that I am contributing in a small way to my community. Not to expect anything out of anyone of whatever skin color or country they live in. And ask them why or why not.

        At the end of the day, you and I want to the same thing. We want a strong and prosperous India. This superior/inferior argument is your own imagination based on a biased sample. So cut the crap and don’t paint all NRIs with the same color. Thank you.

        • Anuraag Sanghi said, on April 25, 2012 at 7:32 pm

          AFOYB – You need to read what I am saying before start shooting!

          The other aspect is if you want to be all protective about your ideas, you must not expose them to open air and sunlight. They might die by exposure to facts and truth.

          • A fan of Your Blog said, on April 26, 2012 at 5:53 pm

            Hehe ok. Thanks for your advice. I will do just as you say! Facts and Truth? Nice one. 🙂

  11. samadhyayi said, on April 25, 2012 at 1:28 pm

    Just calling a spade a spade.


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