2ndlook

Hit me with your best shot

Posted in America, Business, Desert Bloc, History, India, politics by Anuraag Sanghi on March 5, 2012

Is Ayn Rand the best, that the West can throw? Facing an existential crisis, the West seems clueless.

I wonder why words like karmic, disciple, wise hermit in the mountain type of Indian imagery is used to debunk Ayn Rand.  |  Cartoon source & courtesy - cartoonstock.com; credits embedded.

I wonder why words like karmic, disciple, wise hermit in the mountain type of Indian imagery is used to debunk Ayn Rand. | Cartoon source & courtesy – cartoonstock.com; credits embedded.

Love on Wall Street

Gary Weiss, the Wall Street writer (of the) comprehensive chronicle of Wall Street corruption in 2006 (Wall Street Versus America) charts a bold new course with the release of Ayn Rand Nation: The Hidden Struggle for America’s Soul.

We did some further digging into the money cartel financing this “spontaneous” outpouring of campus and Tea Party interest in Rand, whose work is regularly considered to be mediocre and simpleminded.

Oil billionaire, Charles Koch, has been funneling tens of millions of dollars through his foundation into economic programs at public universities and mandating approval of faculty and curriculum in some instances. It has not been reported that a sweeping partnership in these programs has sprung up between Koch and the southern banking giant, BB&T, the latter corporation mandating that Ayn Rand’s book Atlas Shrugged is taught and distributed to students.

An email request to the Charles G. Koch Foundation for information on how this partnership evolved went unanswered, despite Koch’s claim to want to set the record straight on his past funding schemes.

Raising more eyebrows is the discovery that the so-called populous craze for Ayn Rand’s seminal work, Atlas Shrugged, is also being financed by a decidedly non-populist pact of deep-pocketed hedge fund operators.

Weiss piqued our curiosity when he mentions in his book that the Ayn Rand Institute based in Irvine, California is holding its annual gala fundraiser, not on the west coast, but at the swanky St. Regis hotel in Manhattan and charging $1500 a plate. We learn further from Weiss that Arline Mann, Managing Director and Associate General Counsel of the Board of Goldman, Sachs & Company is the Co-Chair of the Ayn Rand Institute. To move the money trail along, Weiss interviews Barry Colvin, Vice Chairman of a hedge fund, Balyasny Asset Management, who just up and decides to open a New York chapter of the Ayn Rand Institute and spearhead a fund drive.

Weiss attends the 2010 St. Regis event and was stuck at an ultraconservative press table, getting a sugar high on moelleux aux chocolat, coconut sorbet and berry chutney, as the mindless clap-trap of Objectivist theory drones into the microphone.

There are two simple words that sum up why hedge funds would be bankrolling the resurrection of a woman who’s been dead for thirty years: Dodd-Frank, the financial reform legislation that Wall Street is desperately trying to kill.

While the hedgies are financing the flood of books to high schools and campus, Koch and BB&T are taking care of business with the professors. (via Resurrecting Ayn Rand: How Corporate Money Pushes Economic Poison on Campus | Economy | AlterNet).

Ayn Rand's thin maya framework is blown by the first intrusion of reality. |  Cartoon by Peter Bagge of 2009  |  Source and courtesy - blog.partners-west.com  |  Click for larger image.

Ayn Rand’s thin maya framework is blown by the first intrusion of reality. | Cartoon by Peter Bagge of 2009 | Source and courtesy – blog.partners-west.com | Click for larger image.

Adversity does strange things

The reason why Ayn Rand is catching on with the young crowd (for a short while), is not because she is being pushed by Wall Street.

The pushing may be coincidental and opportune.

Sure.

But what about, for instance, pirated editions of her books that are sold on pavements in India, for the last 25 years – at least. There is a demand for her books.

Make no mistake.

The reason for Ayn Rand’s popularity is because she offers a sanitized, internally consistent Western framework that people can refer to.

But her framework crumbles the moment reality intrudes.

Capitalism golden age

For instance, according to Ayn Rand, the 19th century was the closest that the West came to capitalism.

Yes, she is right.

Capitalism was built in the 19th century. On a solid foundation of slavery, loot from the colonies, genocides in American and Australia. When slaves revolted in Haiti, West Indies, Cuba, capitalism collapsed. When there were no more victims left, genocide stopped in America and Australia. In Congo, it stopped short of extinction. It was massive extraction of raw minerals from earth, starting with gold, using slave labour that made the brilliant burst of capitalist fireworks of 19th century possible.

Of course Ayn Rand dismisses slavery, genocide and colonialism with ‘condemnation’ in a few sentences.

Instead Ayn Rand uses the common Desert Bloc trick – follow me now; and heaven can wait. Capitalism will make any country, the land of milk and honey. But it is always in the future.

Ayn Rand’s anti-family ideas are coming home to roost in America. Single-mothers are raising nearly a quarter of America’s children.

Every story is different, but when you examine the figures, actual single parent statistics may surprise you. According to Custodial Mothers and Fathers and Their Child Support: 2007, released by the U.S. Census Bureau in November, 2009, there are approximately 13.7 million single parents in the United States today, and those parents are responsible for raising 21.8 million children (approximately 26% of children under 21 in the U.S. today). (via Single Parent Statistics – Number of Kids With One Parent).

Without families, the few children that are born, will grow up in aging and shrinking societies. These societies will need to import labour – and that is what happened in Greece, Rome, and West for most of the last 500 years.

Labour was imported mostly as slaves – but lately, it is immi-grunts.

Ayn Rand main appeal seems to be teen-agers, juveniles and the young. At least in India.  | Cartoon source & courtesy - toonpool.com; artist credit embedded.   |  Click for image.

Ayn Rand main appeal seems to be teen-agers, juveniles and the young. At least in India. | Cartoon source & courtesy – toonpool.com; artist credit embedded. | Click for image.

Minimalist theme

Ayn Rand’s knowledge of history and economics was less than minimal.

Her imagery of indolent Indian rajas, counting gold coins, was neither history nor economics. Indian Rajas for longest never built palaces, mausoleums, edifying structures – even though they presided over the world’s most prosperous region. And most of the Indian gold that Ayn Rand talks of is in private hands – not in the hands of the State, as Ayn Rand proposes.

Ayn Rand’s support for the gold standard is sure recipe for giving birth to tyrants, dictators and war-mongers – which is what Western history is about.

And strangely, apart from tall tales, tyrants and dictators in India never lasted in India. Makes one think.

But thinking was never Ayn Rand’s strength.

Pulp fiction of capitalism

The second half of 20th century saw the end to dominant inputs for Western ‘success’. The Western world, faced a serious economic crises with the decline in: –

  1. Slavery in the Western world, due to many slave revolts, social disaffection due to unemployment
  2. Colonial exploitation was an ‘adequate’ replacement for slavery
  3. Genocide in the Americas, and Australia – and near annihilation in Africa.
  4. The wages of crime. Opium (forced production in India, forced trade with China), piracy, slave trading
Ayn Rand's version of society. Can Ayn Rand be the 'guiding light' at Cato Institute!  |  Libertarians and Civil Rights by Jim Day, Las Vegas Review-Journal

Ayn Rand’s version of society. Can Ayn Rand be the ‘guiding light’ at Cato Institute! | Libertarians and Civil Rights by Jim Day, Las Vegas Review-Journal

This ‘White-Wash’ job was taken up by professional Western propagandists. One such was a popular writer, waxing nostalgic for this ‘golden age’ – Ayn Rand.

Her books have become popular in the last 50 years. In India too, her popularity has created a demand for pirated prints of her books that are sold from pavements.

This then is the West, facing up to the biggest challenge the Western world has seen – I would say, in the last 500 years.

To go down, clutching Ayn Rand’s skirts, is pretty lame.


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22 Responses

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  1. Dr. Jessie Mercay said, on March 6, 2012 at 5:11 pm

    Just thinking about Ayn Rand
    I have pondered the meaning behind these posted thoughts on Ayn Rand. I’d like to point out some ideas which she put forth that, if heeded by humanity, would change the world in a positive way.
    1. “A creative man is motivated by the desire to achieve, not by the desire to beat others.” this important idea can be found in many of Ayn’s works. she thought that free capitolism was the answer to economic and social plights but she included in that thought concepts that are centered around fairness, geuinine concern for others, and self motivation.

    2.”I swear, by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.” (From Atlas Shrugged). Again – this idea shows her belief in self motivation but also her concern for the protection of others. While she believed in capitolism, she did not believe in slavery or taking advantage of the workforce or others in any way. Unfortunately modern capitolism has become a criminal activity with Bankers and big business harming any and all but their selves. The majority of humanity is asked to live their lives for bankers and big business. I ask, if we don’t live for the sake of the Self what is the reason for living? A great upanishad said this very idea. It is not for the sake of others that I live but for the sake of the Self. It is not for the sake of love that i live but for the sake of the Self…..

    3. “The truth is not for all men, but only for those who seek it.” She believed that there is a Truth. she also believed that that truth cannot be found through hope, faith, dreams etc – it is found by a seeker who objectively searches and sets aside childish ideas.

    4. “But why should you care what people will say? All you have to do is please yourself.” (From The Fountainhead). While this may seem to be a selfish motivation (many of her ideas could seem selfish) the underlying idea is that we are responsible for ourselves – if we take that to heart then we can move forward in life. And in that moving forward, we are not to take advantage of or hurt others on the way.
    here is an interesting audio of reflections and stories about her:(click here)

    Do I agree with everything she said and thought? No, but I respect her for being someone who has original thoughts – someone who has taken the time to think and develop a philosophy. And, she asks others to think aobut their own philosophy

    This was a noble woman with noble ideas of do no harm.

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on March 8, 2012 at 6:35 am
      There is a big difference between what the two of us are saying.

      I am going by her about 2500 pages of published work. Using a few sentences (4 sentences) and building an entire edifice around those few sentences to evaluate Ayn Rand’s worth(lessness) may not yield results. As a good propagandist, Ayn Rand uses some legitimate ideas to sneak in her negative agenda.

      Ayn Rand’s biggest fraud is the gold standard.

      Gold standard will ensure that the governments in the world will control all the gold – and we will remain powerless and paupers. Like in the Ayn Rand’s Golden Age of Capitalism. Correctly, gold should be in the hands of each one of us. – which is भारत-तंत्र Bharat-tantra.

      You have not said a word of Ayn Rand’s silence on the genocides, slavery, colonialism which is behind the Rise of the West. You have not said a word about the dysfunctional family system in the West, which is behind the Declining West. Ayn Rand’s token acknowledgement of the racial situation in the USA, which according to some is her biggest flaw in her ‘framework’.

      Above all, Ayn Rand is fraud by claiming that Capitalism is in the future. Capitalism was born, lived and died by slavery and the sword. It is not something in the future.

      Whatever political system that Ayn Rand is describing and talking of as something in the future is not Capitalism – and it is a common Desert Bloc trick.

      Everything is in the future. Like a democracy, all political promises are in the future. We are given only half the picture. Each step central control is renewed. Such is Ayn Rand’s polity – what she wrongly calls capitalism.

      Ayn Rand like every Desert Bloc ideologue says:

      Follow me now – and heaven can wait.

      • Dr. Jessie Mercay said, on June 1, 2012 at 6:49 pm

        Anuragg,
        This post is mostly opinion so feel free to ignore it if you wish. You have evidently done a great deal more research on the ideas of Ayn Rand than I have. I have looked at her from a different perspective I suppose. I also see the background from which she came and how that influenced her thought. I agree with comments below that capitalism should be defined so that we are on the same page. To be honest, I have not witnessed that what we in the US call capitalism is working well for the middle and lower classes who earn their money from the sweat of their brow (most of the people). I have not witnessed that most people who earn their money from the employ of others are really fair – most aren’t. If it were up to them we would still have sweat shops here in the US. Instead we have american products made in sweat shops elsewhere in the world. Yet, those companies and people who are socially conscious and care for others are making efforts in that direction. While they are far and few between, those kinds of capitalistic companies are on the rise… People water, tom’s shoes to name a few….

        I agree, gold should be in the hands of of each of us. Sadly, if it was we could stand to loose it like we did during WWII when the gov confiscated it all at a low price. I am for the gold and silver standard and not for this unbridaled printing of valueless money. But I need to be careful because that kind of thinking got to presidents killed. (my opinion)

        As usual I value what yu say because I know you have done the research behind it.

        • Anuraag Sanghi said, on June 14, 2012 at 6:20 pm

          I agree, gold should be in the hands of of each of us.

          As long we agree on this, all other disagreements are merely technical and momentary.

          Catch this thread – and you will unravel the entire mesh of maya (a mix of illusion, confusion, mirage) that Ayn Rand weaves.

  2. Dr. Jessie Mercay said, on March 6, 2012 at 5:14 pm

    PS
    Do I think that capitolism is the best system? Idelly it is great but because of the greediness of humanity, it is proving to reduct mankind to be slaves of the few. Do I have a solution? The only solution I see is to somehow work for a spiritual solution… not a religous solution but a spiritual solution.

  3. admin said, on March 9, 2012 at 6:58 pm

  4. masculineffortmasculineffort said, on May 29, 2012 at 7:24 am

    I have some issues with this post of yours. There are several holes in your work.

    First, you need to define what you mean by capitalism before we can talk about it. You have not defined it anywhere. So what do you mean by capitalism?

    Second, you allege that under the Gold standard the governments will control all the Gold. My question, what is the basis of such a statement? I don’t see how the Gold standard could be worse than today’s fiat money system where the government can print money at will and force us to accept it against our will. Under the Fiat money system, Governments can finance all wars by incessant money printing. Under a Gold standard, how will they print all that Gold? If you are a student of history, you will observe that Governments abolish the Gold standard precisely at times of war. How can you say that the Gold standard will give birth to tyrants and dictators?

    Third, where does Rand propose that government’s control all the Gold?

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on June 9, 2012 at 8:20 am

      define what you mean by capitalism

      Go with any definition of what capitalism is. I am not defining it – but I am accepting it as a term that defines 19th century economic systems. I am not reinventing the wheel here. Take Ayn Rand’s own definition. I am OK with that.

      Second, you allege that under the Gold standard the governments will control all the Gold. My question, what is the basis of such a statement?

      Again please read any definition of gold standard including Ayn Rand’s. Monetary authorities will print currency in relation to gold.

      Under the Fiat money system, Governments can finance all wars by incessant money printing. Under a Gold standard, how will they print all that Gold? If you are a student of history, you will observe that Governments abolish the Gold standard precisely at times of war. How can you say that the Gold standard will give birth to tyrants and dictators?

      Please read my earlier posts on gold and war. A favorite propaganda trick is to invert the truth. Look at my posts on gold and war. Links embedded.

      • masculineffort said, on June 9, 2012 at 3:33 pm

        Friend, Ayn Rand’s own definition of capitalism is similar to the definition of the Free market by the Austrian School of Economics
        1. No state interference in any way in economics
        2. No initiation of violence by any organization against the other.
        3. Prices set by the law of demand and supply alone and not legislation by the state
        Is this your definition too?

        • Anuraag Sanghi said, on June 14, 2012 at 6:11 pm
          Yes – but this leaves out some vital history and corollaries.

          1. This ‘capitalistic’ system was at its peak in the 19th century – based on slave labor. Capitalism died with the independence of Haiti and Slave revolts in the Caribbean.

          2. This definition also leaves out the ‘legacy’ of inherited wealth – in terms of land and gold, which is then used by the rich to remain rich.

          3. The other part which this definition leaves out is the concentration of wealth. Feudalism, Monarchy, Communism, Socialism – and Capitalism all ensure that the wealth remains concentrated in the hands of few. Bharattantra the Indian system of polity, combined economic-political free – and ensuring that there was no concentration of wealth.

          • masculineffort said, on June 15, 2012 at 3:00 am

            Friend, different people define capitalism differently. That is why I asked for a definition. Under Ayn Rand’s definition, there is no place for slavery in capitalism because it involves the initiation of violence by one party (the master) against the other (the slave).

            Under her definition of capitalism, it would be very hard for wealth to concentrate in the hands of the few because big organizations as a rule become slow and bureaucratic and can no longer compete with small nimble ones. There is a natural order in nature that prevents organizations from becoming too big. The whole point of the state is to reverse this order to the benefit of the politically well connected.

            It is precisely the big companies that lobby (bribe) congress to make laws that benefit big organizations at the expense of small ones. Witness at the moment the battle over Raw Milk in the United States. Big Milk companies like Borden milk are trying to lobby for the ban the sale of Raw Milk across the U.S. If only pasteurized milk is legal, then Borden with millions of customers can cost effectively build huge pasteurization plants. A small farmer with a few 100 customers cannot cost effectively pasteurize his milk and thus cannot compete with Borden. And Borden Milk can thus eliminate thousands of isolated competitors in one fell swoop. The only way Borden can be stopped is for farmers across the U.S. to organize and lobby congress. But you understand how hard it is (if not impractical) to do this, right? So my question, “A system in which Borden Milk can bring forth laws to hurt their competitors, not with a better product mind you, but with political connections, Is this capitalism?” Ayn Rand would say, “Definitely not”

            We people believe that the State exists to protect us from the Big corporations. The reverse is actually true. A central Government is the actually most efficient way for Big corporations to exploit us.

  5. Western winners said, on October 13, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    What nonsense.

    Slavery, genocide and colonialism on the part of “the West” ended long ago.

    Well before, in fact, “the West” reached its greatest economic, political and cultural power.

    This thesis is just more whining from the losers.

    • Sridhar said, on October 19, 2012 at 12:51 am

      sure, that’s why Obama has to be provide his birth certificate again and again and he is regularly taunted for being a muslim…

      “The thesis is just more whining from the losers”

      Ummm.. it is you who is whinning not the poster lol….

  6. Manu said, on October 14, 2012 at 10:45 pm

    Yes sir the great westerner it has stopped. In Australia in USA in Canada in south america it has indeed stopped because no one is left to kill or not significant enough numbers left to bother about them… from 1910 to 1945 you killed enough in Europe.. Mostly your own… Then Vietnam, Korea and now ten years of killing in the Muslim world…. Tell me one other set of people who have killed and wiped put more cultures than western civilization … You rock mate…

    • Dr. Jessie Mercay said, on October 14, 2012 at 10:52 pm

      Can’t argue with you Manu…. Well, the muslim world certainly has killed by the millions but I don’t think they have quite met the numbers of the western world. I am looking for some Ashoka type revelation by western political leaders ( not to mention the church in Rome – lots of blood on it’s cross).

  7. Indian First (@nationfirst) said, on October 15, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Well, you seem to be prejudiced against anything the west produces.. While many of your posts are good, there is a sense of repeated ideas in them:

    1. The West always relies on war, violence etc. to become prosperous.
    2. Eventhough you pronounce ‘Desert Bloc’ in many places, you seem to have a soft corner for Islam and indirectly blame the west for Islamic demonization completely ignoring the damage Islam has caused in India.
    3. Every western author or a thinker is always a propagandist trying to spread the “desert bloc” idea without any independent thinking..

    It gets tiring after some time you know..

    Let’s come to Ayn Rand.. The reason her works are popular with the Indian youth is because her ideas perfectly resonates with the middle class idealism: self motivation, merit based system, minimal state interference, independence to pursue your interests without worrying about what others think, and more importantly Honesty to one’s self and the work. All these are lacking in India today and the young India feels that the previous generation of netas and babus have let them down in all these areas..

    It is another matter whether she did not condemn slavery etc. but her main works which are famous are Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged and both the heroes in these works fit the ideal man according to her and those characters can inspire any aspiring youth in India today.

    Regarding Capitalism, Dr. Jessie Mercay above has posted very good points..

    “This ‘capitalistic’ system was at its peak in the 19th century – based on slave labor. Capitalism died with the independence of Haiti and Slave revolts in the Caribbean.”

    That is hardly a reason that it cannot be revived in the future. In fact with the crisis in the US and Europe, the Austrian school of economics is gaining popularity.

    “2. This definition also leaves out the ‘legacy’ of inherited wealth – in terms of land and gold, which is then used by the rich to remain rich. ”

    So remaining rich is the problem with capitalism ? The above definition of capitalism concentrates on creating wealth and not redistributing it.

    “3. The other part which this definition leaves out is the concentration of wealth. Feudalism, Monarchy, Communism, Socialism – and Capitalism all ensure that the wealth remains concentrated in the hands of few.”

    The wealth cannot remain with the same set of people in this capitalism without creating anything of value. The value creation usually happens with utlizing the labour of the less wealthy, thereby benefiting both the parties. Besides, if the wealthy are lazy and run an inefficient organization, they will soon be overtaken by another in the free market.

    “masculineffort” had put it better above. If Ayn Rand is alive today, she would have blasted the Wall street cronies more than any other communist will ever do.

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on October 15, 2012 at 7:55 pm

      If Ayn Rand is alive today, she would have blasted the Wall street cronies more than any other communist will ever do.

      This is one part of your comment that is completely correct.

      Islam promises heaven with many houris for all those who die a ‘honorable’ death. Worker’s Paradise is in the future. The golden age is always in the future or in the past. In Ayn Rand’s version of history, Capitalism’s golden age was in the 19th century – correctly, while slavery was at its height.

      And it will be in the future.

    • Sridhar said, on October 19, 2012 at 12:54 am

      This is not a comedy serial where you will be given new and improved facts to laugh about… what you call repeated sentences are indeed the truth. West’s rise occured because they had immense slavepopulation,they could easily manipulate other country’s economy and then they put restrictions when they were done with the genocide.Slavery,racism and colonial loot forms a big part of west’s wealth

      • Indian First (@nationfirst) said, on October 22, 2012 at 6:19 pm

        I agree that Slavery was rampant but to claim that their wealth has everything to do with it is lazy analysis. Also, both of you have not responded to my points about the blogger having soft spot for Islam and the sweeping generalization of western thinkers. The same west had both Ayn Rand and Marx.

        Ayn Rand is popular in today’s Indian youth because of her characters, not because she did not oppose slavery or because she wrote against communism. It is natural that a bulk of her books sold are Atlas Shrugged and Fountainhead and not her other books about general philosophy. The youth loves those two because of the sheer Idealism portrayed. In a country bereft of leaders, her characters influence many of them. One of my friends stopped buying pirated copies of books sold in the platforms after reading her works. Just an example..

        • Sridhar said, on October 24, 2012 at 3:58 pm

          “Ayn Rand is popular in today’s Indian youth”
          You sure american youth right? I dont knowwhat you are talking about maybe those Indian youths you talk about are american asslickers,a tiny minority. I haven’t seen any Rand fever among the youth.

          “Soft spot for Islam”
          This I agree with, It seems Anurag is also entrnched in the sickularism bullcrap… When talking ofdesert bloc, he often leaves out mullahs and maulvis and hasn’t talked much about mughal bigotry and Hindu genocide (some 2 million Hindus over 200 years in muslim ruled areas). I dont think muslims in India are any good than the general uneducated and savage-like population in the “arab” area. Islam is a means for arabs to make others lick their a**. If you are a non-arab muslim, you must see arabs as some sort of massiah and higher beings… I regularly visit US and Canada (every 3 months or so) and have some nice egyptians,syrian, kuwaiti,qatari firends, most of them talk as if they are slaves to arabs, over-praising them whenever they can… infact, many arab countries have a common concept of seeing arab men as being musculine and best for sex etc. weird fanatics…

          “but to claim that their wealth has everything to do with it is lazy analysis.”

          It is neither lazy nor false… if west was such a great civillization, why did it has to resort to only greeks or romans for their civillisational greatness? Isn’t it indicative of west’s greatness?
          Moreover,we live in the bubble of western propoganda, especially westernized idiots like you… if you seriously think westerners will tell you the dark sides of their civillisation then you are kidding yourself. This is what I call “I want to believe” attitude where westernized Indians are more than happy to dismiss their own history and culture for pulp fiction and a stupid image created by westerners basically to mock them… these believers then feel ashamed and then get eager to imitate wwesterners.

          West did have some business and stuff, but their basic growth comes from colonial loot, slavery and stealing knowledge and passing it off as “western innovation” and replacing the original symbols with greek symbols. It is neither a new concept nor is it a secret… only believers want to dismiss this as a way to degrade west…

          religion and superstiiton still forms a big part of west, you would be surprised to know how many in west still believe in devil and angels and all that, and just like islam they can’t stand nor respect an alien culture…they either dismiss it by mocking it or by outright stealing major philosophies from the culture…

          Just see the recent attempt by britards to pass off Gandhi’s non-violence phenomenon as a western construct that he learnt when he was in west…:) The funny thing is the believers have no problem in happily believing that either…

          West wiped out entire native populations in NA and SA (some 3 million people in both continent), these lands were filled with resources,where do you think those resources went? Anurag merely gives a better look at the actual story of the west’s “glorious” history, to dismiss it by comparing it with him not talking about islam is funny

          • Indian First (@nationfirst) said, on October 29, 2012 at 6:53 pm

            Well, I did not dismiss his posts simply by saying his soft spot for Islam.. I pointed out them as separate points. Also, It’s not that I oppose his views.. Many of his posts are good as I wrote in the first post.. I merely pointed out that there is a general theme around his posts and a much bigger prejudice against the west that makes him dismiss anything the west produced or produces now..

            “You sure american youth right? I dont knowwhat you are talking about maybe those Indian youths you talk about are american asslickers,a tiny minority. I haven’t seen any Rand fever among the youth.”

            Bull sh*t.. I’m and Indian and to brand somebody someone you don’t know as something shows your lack of patience or dealing with opposite view.. grow up.. I did not claim that Ayn Rand is popular.. That’s what the author claims:

            “The reason why Ayn Rand is catching on with the young crowd (for a short while), is not because she is being pushed by Wall Street.

            The pushing may be coincidental and opportune.

            Sure.

            But what about, for instance, pirated editions of her books that are sold on pavements in India, for the last 25 years – at least. There is a demand for her books.

            Make no mistake.”

            I only responded saying that this is not because of her philosophy in general but because of the characters in Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.. If you want proof, read the first 2 parts of Atlas Shrugged.. Then comeback here instead of posting nonsense..

            “West did have some business and stuff, but their basic growth comes from colonial loot, slavery and stealing knowledge and passing it off as “western innovation” and replacing the original symbols with greek symbols.”

            I am not the westernized Indian you think I am and agree that a lot of their wealth was achieved through colonies, loot etc. But they do provide some good examples as well.. Ignoring everything as ‘bad-bad west’ is not going to benefit everyone..

            If we were so good 1000 years back, it doesn’t matter. what matters is today and the future.. we cannot hide . our corruption here by saying we had a great model in 500 AD. We need to take examples from everywhere including the west. Why are developed countries less corrupt than us ? We need to consider such things also.


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