Dravidian history no one talks about …
Indian history as a negotiation
The Aryan Invasion Theory now has no legs to stand on. Bowing before the inevitable, Western historians, posing as ‘friends’ of India, have sneaked in something equally obnoxious. It is “The Dravidian Invasion Theory.” We have a new situation now. The ‘deal’ seems to be - “We will agree to Aryan as Indians – but you have to agree that the Dravidians were the ‘actual’ invaders.” It was an alert 2ndlook reader who pointed my nose to the Wikipedia entry under the heading of Out of India Theory.
If Dravidian migrated from Africa to India through the Middle East, it could have left traces in Egypt and countries under Egyptian influence as well, explaining the data which led earlier researchers to the thesis of a Dravidian ‘Indo-Mediterranean’ culture. (105) Sergent links Indian forms of phallus worship with Sahel-African, Ethiopian, Egyptian and Mediterranean varieties of the same. The Egyptian uraeus (‘cobra’), the snake symbol on the pharaonic regalia, has been linked in detail with Dravidian forms of snake worship, including a priest’s possession by the snake’s spirit. Dravidian cremation rituals for dead snakes recall the ceremonial burial of snakes in parts of Africa. (106) Others have added the similarity between the Dravidian naga-kal (Tamil: ’snake-stone’, a rectangular stone featuring two snakes facing one another, their bodies intertwined) and the intertwined snakes in the caduceus, the Greek symbol of science and medicine. It has consequently been suggested that some Dravidian words may also have penetrated into the European languages. Thus, Dravidian kal, ’stone’, resembles Latin calculus, ‘pebble’, and Dravidian malai, ‘mountain’, resembles an Albanian and Rumanian word mal, ‘rock, rocky riverside’. (107) But this hypothesis is a long shot and we need not pursue it here. Far more substantial is the Dravidian impact on another language family far removed from the recent Dravidian speech area, viz. Uralic. The influence pertains to a very sizable vocabulary, including core terms for hand, fire, house (Finnish kota, Tamil kudi), talk, cold, bathe, die, water, pure, see, knock, be mistaken, exit, fear, bright, behind, turn, sick, dirty, ant, strong, little, seed, cut, wait, tongue, laugh, moist, break, chest, tree; some pronouns, several numerals and dozens of terms for body parts. (108) But it goes deeper than that. Thus, both language families exclude voiced and aspirated consonants and all consonant clusters at the beginning of words. They have in common several suffixes, expressions and the phonological principle of vocalic harmony. As the Dravidian influence, like that of IE, is more pronounced in the Finno-Ugric than in the Samoyedic branch, we may surmise that the contact took place after the separation of the Samoyedic branch. But the main question here is how Dravidian could have influenced Uralic given their actual distance. (via Update on the Aryan Invasion Debate by Koenraad Elst).
Why can’t Western historians get a simple idea in their head? Aryans are from the land of Bharata-ah. Aryan culture is based on values – and not race and language. The single biggest differentiators, between Aryans and other cultures, is slavery. Under Aryadhwaja (the Aryan flag), rulers were expected (as spelt out in Arthashastra) to follow Aryan norms and practices – specially with regard to slavery. And there is no mention of an Aryan race or Aryan language! The Aryan Race is a piece of Western fiction – called history. There were and are, only Aryan values.
History would be a lot simpler – if simplicity is allowed to prevail. Massive invasions and migrations even today, are fraught with risk. Why would people do that 5,000-10,000 years ago. Dravidians are equally and fully Aryan, Mr.Elst. These games of Aryan /Dravidian are neither honest nor entertaining. What is your motivation?
Hittite Kings – with Tamil names
Or is it that you can’t see beyond your nose, Mr.Elst?
Look at the interesting case of the (at least) three Hittite kings whose name is Mursili. Mursili I (~1620-~1590; also spelled Mursilis). There is no Sanskritic meaning of this name – and most Hittite kings had Sanskritic names.
Based on presumptive vowels, the correct name would be Murasoli, which in modern Tamil means “giver of right and moral advice.” Murai means ‘approved code of conduct’ and soli is to ‘peel’; in Marathi ‘solna’ is peeling onions. An extant Tamil magazine calls itself, मुरासोली Murasoli - as also a politician who is known as Murasoli Maran. Mursili-I, (wife’s name Kali), the grandson and successor of the Hittite founder king Hattusili-I, also seemed to be the conscience keeper of the kingdom. Murslili I warned his administrators,
“‘You are about to go to the land, and the blood of the poor man you are not seeking!’
“His porters you do not question. You perform (the wish) of the rich man. You go to his house – you eat, you drink, and he rewards it to you. You take the poor man’s šiēt, (but) you do not investigate his case! Is it thusly that you hold the command of my father?” (KBo 22.1 rev. 34′-31′)
Similarly, the names of some other Hittite kings, like Hantilli and Muwatalli, have not been deciphered till now. These name-meanings will get cleared, if the Tamil meaning of thalli /talli as ‘mother-goddess’ is used. Muwatalli was possibly named after the patron goddess of horse breeding (in Tamil, mawu means horse and talli is mother-goddess). Hantilli is possibly named after the Goddess Annapoorna (han = rice and talli is mother).
Hippodamia wears a 'pallu'
But much before that, is another interesting piece of history!
Clay tablets talk of how Sargon captured Khishibrasini, King of Elam” and his son Lukh’ish’an. (Shibirasini /Shivarasini and Lakshman?). Elam was a Dravidian culture and King Shibi is among the legendary kings in the lineage claimed by Chola kings, (Suryavanshi clan), and the Tamil name for Shibi Chakravarthi is Sembiyan and the Chola kings took this as one of their titles. Between 2000 BC to 1000 BC, about three kings were known as Ebarat (Bharat?). And before that the regents were known as Sukalmah (Sukarma?).
Hippodamia - Pelop's wife, seems to be wearing a saree
Wars and wagers
Which brings another interesting aspect of chariots in Greece.
The chariot was brought to Greece by Pelops (Pallava?) from Anatolia. Pelops had come from Paphlagonia – Pallava + gonia (gonia as a derivative of गृह्या, or gaanv, in modern Hindi).
He established himself – without a war, with a wager. He agreed to race against the the ruler of Elis, Oenamaus, – who fancied his chances in a chariot. The reason for his confidence – a Hittite charioteer, Myrtilus (derived from Hittite name of Mursilis).
Olympics Games & Pallavas?
Pelops won the chariot race – and Hippodamia, the king’s daughter.
A painting of Hippodamia, excavated in Pompei seems to showing her wearing a saree - and another line drawing seems to be showing her using a ‘pallu’ - use of the saree as a head-dress. It is after Pelops that the Pelopinissean plains are named. And Pelops went on to institute the first Olympic games!
Ophir
This was a famous city from which ancient Egypt, Babylon, Sumeria and other Middle East countries imported gold, sandalwood, ivory, gems, (wild animals and birds(peacocks, monkeys). This now seems to be a corruption of the Tamil kingdom of Oviyar.
Oviyar were one of the ruling tribes of South India and Sri Lanka. Ophir (as the Greeks called it and the West knows it) was a kingdom in South India and Lanka - a legend in its own time. Ships sailed from Sopara (modern Nallasoppara) and Lothal.
Elam – and world history
The people of Elam (yes in Tamil, Eelam means homeland), were the first to civilise the Iranian Peninsula in the 2700 BC period. They were contemporaries of the Egyptians, the Mittanis and the Hittites. The Elamites were a significant people till the 800 BC in Persia (modern day Iran). The Elam deity, Inshishunak, probably related to Sheshnag, is shown seated on a throne made up of coiled serpent. And if that was not enough, there are at least four kings named Shuqamuna – the last being King Shuqamuna in 986 BC. Accounting for presumptive vowels, spell it as Shaqamuni – or the more familiar name of Gautama Buddha, Shakyamuni. The Kassites also worshipped Shakyamuni.
Compared to the retributive and vengeful Hammurabi’s code, the Indic rulers of Middle East (the Hittites, Mittanis and Elamites) already had a more liberal and humane legal system. The Elamites were a significant people till the 800BC in Persia (modern day Iran). The Achaemenid Dynasty succeeded the Elamites (Dravidian Indians) in Iran – and the took over the Assyrian Empire. With the change in regime, came a change in the linguistic policy. Elamite-Dravidian language was replaced by Sanskritic-Old Persian.
The Persian linguistic makeover from the Dravidian-Elamite language to Sanskritic-Old Persian however did not change everything. The Elamite element in Zoroastrian revolt against the daiwas (devas), continues today in Elamite-Dravidian-Tamil Nadu, where asura kings like Ravana and Neduncheziyan are respected.
Kannagi and Kovalan
Silappadhikaaram – Nebuchadnezzar and justice
One of the most prominent rulers of Babylon was Nebuchadnezzar (as spelt in English). Replace ‘b’ with ‘d’ and you are very close the Tamil name of Neduncheziyan (Nedunchedianuru) – a current and modern Tamil name.
Interestingly, Neduncheziyan is more famous as the fabled erring Pandyan King in the Tamil classic – Silappadhikaaram. The earliest legend on justice in India is Silappathikaram (Tamil: சிலப்பதிகாரம்). Written by Ilango Adigal /Elangovadigal, supposed brother of Cheran Senguttavan. In the famous play, Silappadhikaaram, (also Silappatikaram) was about miscarriage of justice. The protagonist in the play is King Neduncheziyan.
Kannagi - A Japanese anime character
Neduncheziyan’s mistaken justice, brings him grief and finally death. Neduncheziyan is overshadowed by the other King – Cheran Senguttuvan. It is believed this Tamil classic, written by Jain Saint, Ilangovadigal /Elangovadigal, was Cheran Senguttavan’s brother. And Kannagi, the heroine of Silappadhikaaram, is a popular Japanese anime character – along with Muthu.
Nebuchadnezzar and Dravidians
There are at least four Nebuchadnezzars – but we are interested in two of them. The first was Nebuchadnezzar I (ca1126-ca1105) who invaded Elam (the Dravidian rulers of modern Iran). But it was Nebuchadnezzar II, who commissioned one of the wonders of the ancient world – The Hanging Gardens of Babylon – for Amytis, his homesick Elamite princess. Amytis, the daughter of the Median King, (a neo Elamite King), longed for the greenery of her homeland. A prominent ruler of Babylon, Nebuchadnezzar-II, 605-562 BC, (as spelt in English) not only married an Elamite princess, but also took on an Elamite name (related to the Dravidian languages). Nebuchadnezzar III (Niditu-bel), who rebelled against Darius I of Persia in 522 BC and Nebuchadnezzar IV (Arakha), who rebelled against Darius I of Persia in 521 BC are the other two.
From India To Babylon and Russia
Post colonial historical revision is proposing new theories. New archaelogical evidence supports history that shows Aryans moved from India to the Anatolian plains and established the Sumerian, Mesopotamian, Babylonian cultures of Elam, Mitannites, Kassites along modern Syria to Turkey. The Elamites, Mittanis, Hittites competed and traded with the Egyptians.
Usually, we look for Indian history in India. But there is a Indian history outside India, which show India to be completely different that what we have always thought it to be – especially Dravidian history.
Colonial historians first split Indian history into Aryan and Dravidian history. Then dismissed Dravidian history as subordinate and lesser than Aryan on the basis of the Aryan Invasion Theory. Now that the Aryan Invasion /Migration Theory does not have a leg to stand on, the contribution by the Dravidians along the दक्षिणपथ dakshinapatha becomes more important to the West.
And it is this part of Indian (Dravidian) history, which the West is trying to usurp – having been forced to give up the Aryan Invasion /Migration Theory.
Along the Dakshinapatha दक्षिणपथ
The other part to Indian history – which today influences and touches half the world. This history is full of wealth, military successes and a spread which taken India deeper than any other civilisation in the world. While the previous history was along the उत्तरपथ uttarapath, this story lies along the दक्षिणपथ dakshinapatha.
Its starts at Kerala, a highway across Nagpur, Jhansi, Gwalior, Delhi, Kashmir and ends in modern Iran. This history and geography is loosely dominated by the Dravidian segment of India.
There is (at least) 3000 year old history that Tamil language has, which makes it one the oldest, living language. Of course, the division between Aryan and Dravidian history is a Western creation. Arya was never around race, religion or language. It was about values. Noble values.
Languages related to Tamil and Dravidian linguistics are in use even today in Pakistan, where the Brahui tribe speaks a related version of the Tamil language. The Brahuis have marriage preferences which are similar to South Indians (cousins preferred in marriage) – rather than North Indians.
The Dating Imbroglio
Historical dating till the 1960’s was based on a matrix of archaeology, books, records, events, cross-indexing, astronomy. In most cases, all these factors were NOT present, resulting in a significant element of guess – work – and a major element of vested interests.
The two point agenda was the maintenance of the Greek Miracle – motivated by desire to use history as a colonial and exploitative tool. And the other item on the agenda was the proving of the ‘correctness’ of Biblical events – which was motivated by a racial agenda to prove Western racial superiority.
Modern history, is now caught between the Greek Miracle History School, which has stuck to the Sumer->Turkey->Egypt->Greece->Rome->Europe–>West-Is-The-Greatest Axis and the Velikovsky School which is stuck to proving that the Bible is indeed the Last & Only Word.
In 1960s, came new tools to assist archaeological dating system – the the Carbon-14 and the Bristlecone Pine tree-ring system – as well as others. Even this has been been distorted by calibrations, aberrant data and acceptable readings – all the time maintaining a veneer of secular and objective history. Traditional Western historians from both the schools dont want to change – as whole libraries of history based on theories of Western superiority will become redundant.
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Interesting as usual. but that particular link u gave — regarding the tamil origins of ophir — was to put it mildly terrible and detracts from the scholarly nature of ur article. Since the time this aryan / dravidian conflict theory came about (which has no basis either in sanskrit literature or, interestingly, in tamil literature) a whole generation of pseudo-historians have sprung up in Tamil Nadu (supported by the dravidian political parties) whose favorite pastime is dreaming up more and more glorified, fantasy accounts of tamil history. this particular person, whose link u have put, appears to be one of these.
Raman – Thanks for your comments, compliments and the participation.
Modern History, a Western invention, as we know it today, is State supported. Western historians gloss over the State support. Hegel was the father of modern Western history and Max Muller, one of his many illegitimate ‘ideological’ children.
Max Muller was a paid by the English East India Company (EEIC). The EEIC had clear agenda of Christian proselytization, Dominance of Western Race and of course, economic exploitation. Western history, that we talk about, is finally the outcome of this agenda. Similarly, I have experienced in the erstwhile State of Hyderabad, another version of history, which too was State supported.
To allege State Support only against ‘pseudo-historians’ of Tamil Nadu is unfair. There is a vast and rich Indian narrative of achievements, in which Dravidians have contributed significantly. The Aryan North versus the Dravidian South is a modern, sterile and artificial creation, which blinds us.
One has only to travel to parts of South East Asia to see the reality of this ‘glorified, fantasy accounts of tamil history’. If we are not too careful, we may find out that the West will again usurp our Dravidian past – like they have, our Aryan past for the last 200 years.
Velikovsky did not try to prove that the bible was true, and rejected fundamentalism. He did use the Bible, and other historical sources, as evidence of ancient catastrophes, which is not the same thing. See “Fundamentalism” at the Velikovsky Encyclopedia
I didn’t see Velikovsky use Persian texts, Koran, Chinese sources, Buddhist scriptures, Zend Avestha or the largest body of ancient writing in the world, which is the Indic books.
Apart from stray references, that is.
A clear, narrow focus of authenticating the Bible as historical source is a credible academic exercize – and is OK in my view.
However, if the Velikovsky School had /has global pretensions, they should shed those – pronto.
A SUN WORSHIPPING PHOENICIAN PRIEST FROM SYRIA WITH CHARIOT, DANCING WITH DRUMS, AND A NAGA-KAL BECOMES EMPEROR IN ROME
Elagabalus (c. 203 – March 11, 222), also known as Heliogabalus or Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, was a Roman Emperor of the Severan dynasty who reigned from 218 to 222. Born Varius Avitus Bassianus, he was a Phoenician by birth, the son of Julia Soaemias and Sextus Varius Marcellus, and in his early youth he served as a priest of the god El-Gabal at his hometown, Emesa.
In 217, the emperor Caracalla was murdered and replaced by his Praetorian prefect, Marcus Opellius Macrinus. Caracalla’s maternal aunt, Julia Maesa, successfully instigated a revolt among the Third Legion to have her eldest grandson, Elagabalus, declared as emperor in his place. Macrinus was defeated on June 8, 218, at the Battle of Antioch, upon which Elagabalus, barely fourteen years old, ascended to the imperial power and began a reign that was marred by controversies.
During his rule, Elagabalus showed a disregard for Roman religious traditions and sexual taboos. He was married as many as five times and is reported to have prostituted himself in the imperial palace. Elagabalus replaced Jupiter, head of the Roman pantheon, with a new god, Deus Sol Invictus, and forced leading members of Rome’s government to participate in religious rites celebrating this deity, which he personally led.
Elagabalus developed a reputation among his contemporaries for eccentricity, decadence, and zealotry which was likely exaggerated by his successors and political rivals. This propaganda was passed on and, as a result, he was one of the most reviled Roman emperors to early historians. For example, Edward Gibbon wrote that Elagabalus “abandoned himself to the grossest pleasures and ungoverned fury.”[2] “The name Elagabalus is branded in history above all others” because of his “unspeakably disgusting life,” wrote B.G. Niebuhr.[3]
The relationships between Julia Maesa, Julia Soaemias, and Elagabalus were strong, at first. His mother and grandmother became the first women to be allowed into the Senate,[28] and both received Senatorial titles: Soaemias the established title of Clarissima and Maesa the more unorthodox Mater Castrorum et Senatus.[18] While Julia Maesa tried to position herself as the power behind the throne and subsequently the most powerful woman in the world, Elagabalus would prove to be highly independent, set in his ways, and impossible to control.
Historiography
The Roses of Heliogabalus, Lawrence Alma-Tadema, 1888
A propaganda campaign against Elagabalus, traditionally attributed to Julia Avitus Mamaea, was instituted after his death.[44] Many denigrating and false stories were circulated about him, and his eccentricities may have been exaggerated.[44] The most famous among these, immortalized in the 19th-century painting The Roses of Heliogabalus, is that he smothered guests at a dinner to death with a mass of “violets and other flowers” dropped from above.[45]
Augustan History
The source of many of these stories of Elagabalus’s debauchery is the Augustan History (Historia Augusta), which scholarly consensus now feels to be unreliable in its details.[46] The Historia Augusta was most likely written near the end of the 4th century during the reign of emperor Theodosius I,[47] drawing as much upon the invention of its author as actual historical sources. The life of Elagabalus as described in the Augustan History is believed to be largely a work of historical fiction.[48] Only the sections 13 to 17, relating to the fall of Elagabalus, are considered to hold any historical value.[49]
Cassius Dio
Sources more credible than the Augustan History include the contemporary historians Cassius Dio and Herodian. Cassius Dio lived from the second half of the 2nd century until sometime after 229. Born into a patrician family, he spent the greater part of his life in public service. He was a senator under emperor Commodus and governor of Smyrna after the death of Septimius Severus. Afterwards he served as suffect consul around 205, and as proconsul in Africa and Pannonia. Alexander Severus held him in the highest esteem and made him his consul again. His Roman History spans nearly a millennium, from the arrival of Aeneas in Italy until the year 229. As a contemporary of Elagabalus, Cassius Dio’s account of his reign is generally considered more reliable than the Augustan History, although it should be noted that Dio spent the larger part of this period outside of Rome and had to rely on second-hand accounts when composing his Roman History. Furthermore, the political climate in the aftermath of Elagabalus’ reign, as well as his own position within the government of Alexander likely imposed restrictions on the extent to which his writing on this period is truthful.[50]
Herodian
Medal of Elagabalus, Louvre Museum.
Another contemporary of Elagabalus was Herodian, who was a minor Roman civil servant who lived from c. 170 until 240. His work, History of the Roman Empire since Marcus Aurelius, commonly abbreviated as Roman History, is an eye-witness account of the reign of Commodus until the beginning of the reign of Gordian III. His work largely overlaps with Dio’s own Roman History, but both texts seem to be independently consistent with each other.[51] Although Herodian is not deemed as reliable as Cassius Dio, his lack of literary and scholarly pretensions make him less biased than senatorial historians. Herodian is considered the most important source on the religious reforms which took place during the reign of Elagabalus, which have been confirmed by modern numismatical[52][53] and archaeological evidence.[54]
What Gibbon did not add are the following: -
1. Elagabalus /Heliogabalus – possibly is derived from Tamil – Alaga is beautiful and balu is boy. So, how did Elagabalus, a Phoenician use a Tamil name and ruled over the Roman Empire?
2. Phoenicians were known in antiquity as Cananites – and Phoenicians was name given to the Cannanites by the Greeks. The Hebrew word kena’ani (‘Canaanite’) came to have the secondary meaning of “merchant”.
3. Where in the world would you find Canaan – possibly in Tamil Nadu, where Kannan deva is worshipped!
4. Who was the most famous Phoenician chronicler – Sanchoniathon! And where in the world would you find a name like Sanchinath!
5. Cadmus (a Phoenician) is credited with having introduced writing to the Greeks. And what was used by Cadmus – palm leaves. The only people and place where palm leaves were used extensively for writing was India – specifically, more popular in South India.
6. Buddhist Scholars have long argued that Cadmus-> Cadmo-> Gothama is the etymology of Cadmus – and Cadmus was a Buddhist teacher in Greece.
7. A Phoenician Queen committed sati – burnt herself at the funeral pyre. It was Indian women who would committ Sati – instead of becoming slaves. The colonial representation of Sati were false propaganda – which forgot that Indians were the largest numbers of slaves who were captured and sent to Central Asia in Medieval Times by Islamic raiders. Central Asians raiders came to India – to loot gold – and Indians slaves.
8. Hannibal was a Phoenician from Carthage (which was Phoenician city). Was Hannibal supplied elephants by Indic kings to take on the most significant ‘asura-slave’ society of that time. Similar to the Indic support to Persians?
9.The Land of Ophir, mentioned in the Bible was proably Oviyarnadu – which is the modern SE Coast of India (Tamil Nadu, Kerala and Srilanka).
10. Indians were the first to use vowels – and till the Phoenicians introduced vowels to many languages in the world, languages like Akkadian, Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian used only consonants. So, many modern languages owe a debt to the Phoenicians.
11. The SE Coast of India was also a major ship building centre till the early 19th century. So, Phoenicians ships may have well used Indian Teak, which was considered the best for ships, till the use of iron started for ship building.
12. The well known deites of the Cannanites /Phoenicians were Molokh and Baal – which seem to be interestingly similar to Bala-Muruga, a favorite god by the Tamilians – 4000 years later also.
13. I reproduce below from a website dedicated to Phoenician study: -
(Start of extract)
There is a controversial study by Rajeswar Gupta is published in full as originally translated from Bengali in 1902. It is based on the ancient Rig Veda and puts forth the following suggestions regarding the origin of the Phoenicians:
A great war broke out in the remote old days (maybe 10,000 B.C.) between the Indian Aryans and the Phoenicians in which the latter were defeated and compelled to leave wholly or partially the land of the Aryans.
The Phoenicians were the first of the civilized nations of the world. The civilization of Assyria, Babylonia, Egypt, Greece and other ancient countries owed its origin to the union of the civilization of the Aryans with that of the Phoenicians.
The Phoenicians originally lived in some part of India, whence driven out they migrated gradually westwards. While still residing in the neighborhood of India they colonized and traded with Arabia and the countries bordering on the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea.
The Phoenicians had colonies in many countries from each of which they were driven away by the natives after severe struggles. In this way they were expelled from India, Egypt, Greece, and Rome, or they mixed with the natives when they lost their supremacy in those countries.
In ancient time the Red Sea and the Mediterranean Sea were connected together by a strait through which the Phoenician and Aryan trading ships entered the Mediterranean Sea and Indian goods were taken to Europe. As that passage gradually silted up the connection between India and Europe broke off.
It must be noted that historians and archaeologist do theorize about supposed various origins of the Phoenicians with little hard evidence and one is left with nothing more than mere hypotheses
(End of extract).
The test of these interesting ideas may come with gene maps of India. See http://www.dnatribes.com which (based on a a limited sample gives per cent of genes for various parts of India as a percentage mix of Southern African, West African, East African, North India, South India, Eastern India, Altaian (continental Asia-Russia), Arabian, Mestizo, Mesopotamian, Tibetan and Other.)
Such gene maps have solved Pacific arguments – for example – early gene maps now show a 3500 year-old path from south China, with an admixture of Melenesian, on the way to the central Pacific islands. In the metal-free and protein-short islands, a pattern of cannibalism evolved, and Polynesians peoples evolved (in isolation) into large, strong, aggressive, analytical peoples with an indo-pacific language, linked to Malay and Indonesian languages. The arrival of hordes of Europeans with metal and guns – and the opening of the Suez canal – combined with new diseases – took about 200 years to decimate Pacific cultures.
In Samoa, for example – people look a bit Tibetan. It’s because the underlying gene set has ‘Chinese’ genes in it. But to aid your case for Indian supremacy as a core culture – the name of the Sun “Ra” in New Zealand – a country invaded by the cannibals of the Pacific – is the same as the Egyptian “Ra”. And (!) In Sanskrit RA is the acoustic root of fire. RA also connotes with light.
Levuka – The DNA as a ethnic marker needs a lot more study – with a lot less agenda and politics, to become reliable.
You are aware of the Bamshad et al study on the Indian genetic make up, that set out to prove that the Aryan Invasion Theory was true. The Bamshad study was significantly disputed by other studies by Sanghamitra Sahoo et al and Analabha Basu et al.
I would also urge you to consider how Western historians have resisting revised dating of the Egyptian – based on radio carbon dating.
Anyway to get some sense of reality, we would need inputs from multiple sources to construct a ‘realistic’ model.
You have just proved my above point.
This business that Native Tribes in Pacific islands, North America, Australia were wiped out to a convenient raft of diseases is very pithy – and weak. Human beings do develop resistance and immunity to diseases.
It just begs one question.
Just how come, this decimation happened only in the Anglo Saxon colonies? How come no other ethnic group in the world became extinct in this manner and scale?
No Siree. This decimation had nothing to do with DNA, genetic make up, diet, environment. It was cold, calculated and systematic annihilation – which Hitler tried to do in a few short years, unsuccessfully.
My case for ‘Indian supremacy’!!
It has a very delicious sense of imputation. I have not implied any such ’superiority’.
What I am doing is pointing out are some deliberate attempts – aided by probably some level of ignorance, within the media and academia, about Indian contributions in the history of various nations.
Nebuchadnezzar II and all the other Babylonian kings were from the Chaldean dynasty .it is known that Chaldeans spoke a version of the Aramic language.
Aramic has been the language of administration of empires and the language of divine worship. It was the day-to-day language of Israel in the Second Temple period (539 BCE – 70 CE), the original language of large sections of the biblical books of Daniel and Ezra, likely to have been the mother tongue of Jesus of Nazareth and is the main language of the Talmud .
Obviously the names must be Chaldean (Chaldean Aramic) .
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Phoenician sarcophagus were excavated , a testimonial to the fact that Phoenicians buried their dead in stone coffins.
Well! David –
Much like modern India, the West Asian region till the advent of the Desert Bloc supremacy, was a linguistic melting pot. There are hundreds of King names which can be derived from Indic languages. By some clever colonial dating tricks (which are being unravelled now), the evolution of West Asian languages has been distorted.
Your logic is a non-sequitur. Your own name is evidence of the logic. While you say you are an Indian Christian, your name cannot be attributed to any Indian language or dialect (by current linguistic research at least). Does the fact that your name is not Indian makes you any less Indian? Or vice versa!
You can look at: –
1. The suppression of the Pistis Sophia or the heresies of Origen et al to see how the Church has distorted the actual evolution of Christianity.
2. Similarly the persecution of Mani’s followers will give you some ideas.
3. Or the post-Hussite persecution of the Roma Gypsies.
Needless to say all these topics are well covered in various other posts – with exhaustive links which support, dispute or add to my post.
Very well written hotchpotch – even worse are the responses.
You say :
1. Elagabalus /Heliogabalus – possibly is derived from Tamil – Alaga is beautiful and balu is boy. So, how did Elagabalus, a Phoenician use a Tamil name and ruled over the Roman Empire?
So, in the first sentence, the name ‘possibly’ is derived from Tamil – and in the second sentence, no doubt remains and you ask how a Phoenician uses a Tamil name ?
What kind of logic is this ?
I am sorry – I cannot find any logic behind your ideas