2ndlook

Meshing and gnashing – The Clash of civilizations

Posted in Current Affairs, European History, History, India, Islamic Demonization, Media, politics, Religion by Anuraag Sanghi on February 16, 2011

Huntington's book gave pseudo-intellectual justification started the Western campaign of Islamic demonization. (Image source - http://www.bayesianinvestor.com/books; artist attribution not available at image source)

Huntington

Mercenary logic

Samuel P . Huntington’s 1993 book, Clash of Civilizations, has a historical ring to it – a hint of something grand. An influential book, it ostensibly examined ‘conflicts between Western and non-Western cultures’ – and brought the phrase, Clash of Civilizations into limelight.

In the post-Soviet World, the book marked the launch of a new Western campaign – Islamic demonization. This book, released some four years after Rushdie-fatwa, provided pseudo-intellectual justification for West’s anti-Islamic campaign.

The America+NATO sponsored ‘ethnic cleansing’ campaign in Bosnia was underway, since 1992. Saturation media coverage of Monica Lewinsky and cigars effectively drowned President Clinton’s role in the initiation of the anti-Islamic campaign – and the news coming out of the Balkans. Deliberate diversionary tactics?

India’s co-option too, into this campaign was planned in significant detail – and successfully executed. 9/11 (September 11, 2001) was still 8 years in the future. The verbal trickery behind Huntington’s Clash of civilizations ‘package-deal’ has gone by without challenge or de-construction in India. This post will cover some Trojan concepts Huntington  smuggled into the mainstream.

A Basic Stance

For one, the definition of civilizations has to be beyond race, ruins and region. Instead, a definition  around differentiated structures – political, social, economic and ethical structures makes comparative analysis possible.

Civilizations tend to repeat political, social, economic and ethical structures. In the last five thousand years, only three civilizational models can be identified and substantially differentiated.

Desert Bloc

The world’s dominant model today, it has been able to nearly erase competing systems from the collective minds of the ruling elites in the world.

Signs of the Desert Bloc’s birth were first evidenced in the Assyrian Empire – its first laws codified by Hammurabi. Dating is contested, and best estimates are that the Assyrian Empire collapsed around c.600 BC. Seven of history’s largest empires used the Assyrian Empire, as a springboard.

The Desert Bloc extends from west of India, across Middle East, West Asia, extending to Central Asia and Eastern Europe – with its core in a region of 1000 miles radius of Palestine. Inventors of religion, world’s three important religions, (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) were born within 1000 miles radius of Palestine, in the deserts of Middle East. Each of these religions were, so to say, ‘backward compatible’. Islam recognizes Christianity, which uses Judeo-Mosaic texts for its foundations.

Anti-feminist, none of the three religions have female goddesses – unlike the two other civilizations specified below. Western Christian world gave women the right to vote, mostly between 1920-1950. Low levels of marital success are institutionalized – and instead prostitution levels are high.

The Desert Bloc depends on extreme competitiveness between its own factions to gain leadership – extending the analogy of survival of the fittest. Some of its defining struggles in the last 1000 years were Islam vs Christianity; Spain vs Portugal; England vs France; USA vs USSR.

Such factions spring up around deified leaders based on a sharp identity – race, tribe, language, region, religion. Significant leadership struggles have broken out between even intra-religious sects – like Catholics and Protestants, Shias vs Sunnis.

A significant marker of the Desert Bloc is concentration of wealth, power and land in the hands of these deified leaders and their inner circle. Unlike the two other civilizational groups, as we will see. This allows Desert Bloc factions to indulge in extremism. Over 90% of the world’s bloodiest wars, genocides, massacres, annihilations, are to the Desert Bloc account.

The Desert Bloc is differentiated by extensive use of slavery, rule by elites, conspicuous consumption (show piece buildings, spectacular technology) et al.

Driven by ‘at-any-cost’ approach, in the Desert Bloc, everything and everyone is expendable to attain leadership position. Driven more by accelerated creation and destruction, Desert Bloc sub-groups have short life spans (Achaemenid Iran, Greece, Rome, Mongol Empire). Greece, Rome, the Ummayyads, Abbasids, Mongolian Empire, Colonial Spain and Britain best represent the Desert Bloc.

Can different factions of the Desert Bloc, like the Christian West and Islam collaborate? The Islāmic Ottoman Empire and the Christian European powers could not get around to colluding with each other. Even the collusion between the Christian European colonizers was  difficult.  Unless it was over carving the spoils, dividing areas for exploitation – like Papal Bulls (between Spain and Portugal) or the Berlin Conference which triggered the ‘scramble for Africa.’

The  Afro Group

Apart from the Indic System, the only other civilization, the Afro Group could resist the Desert Bloc onslaught in the last 1000 years. The Afro Group successfully kept its identity, at a great cost, unlike Native Americans or Australian aborigines.

An iconic photograph of the Soweto uprising. (Image courtesy - le-regent.net; photographer attribution absent at source).

An iconic photograph of the Soweto uprising. (Image courtesy - le-regent.net; photographer attribution absent at source).

They successfully engaged with the Desert Bloc in Haiti, at Battle of Isandlwana (22 January 1879), by the Mau Mau in Kenya.

Monica Schulyer, an assistant professor of history at Wanye State University, (thinks) the name Mau Mau was itself a British invention and means nothing in Kenyan. Members of the independence movement called them selves the Land and Freedom Army.

In modern South Africa, on July 16, 1976, the ‘day began with a march by 10,000 students carrying banners and slogans, saying “Down with Afrikaans” and “Viva Azania” (the name given to South Africa by black nationalists)’. Soon the number swelled to ‘fifteen thousand school children involved in the protests (Tuttle 1)’, rose against imposition of Afrikaans language by White Apartheid rule. Known to the world as Soweto Uprisings, it is without parallel in the annals of history. In the very heart of the modern Desert Bloc – the USA, after centuries of slavery and discrimination, the Afro Group was able to roll back excesses.

Their robust ‘native’ intelligence best describes how Desert Bloc works. In Jomo Kenyatta words,

“When the Missionaries arrived, the Africans had the Land and the Missionaries had the Bible. They taught how to pray with our eyes closed. When we opened them, they had the land and we had the Bible.”

Another unit from the Afro Group, Cuba, far from its base in Africa, after breaking from slavery,  successfully resisted coming under political bondage of the Desert Bloc, for the last 100 years. In the ancient world, Carthage checked the spread of Desert Bloc, represented by Greece. Carthage allied with Rome to destroy Greece.

Before that, Nubians brought the Egyptian Empire to heel. The 25th dynasty from Nubia or Kush, south of Egypt (modern Sudan), ruled over Egypt for at least 75 years. Piye, earlier”Piankhy”the Nubian king invaded Egypt (ca. 746 BC) – and started the 25th Dynasty, that probably continued till 650 BC. He was succeeded by Shabaqo (ca. 716-702 BC) and his successors Shebitqo (ca. 702-690 BC) and Taharqa (690-664 BC).

Traditional African structures had diffused land and wealth ownership – unlike the Desert Bloc. There is little proof of concentration of wealth in African structures.

Both, the Afro Group and the Indic System have a much superior record of minimal environmental degradation. The Big 5 in animals – elephant, tiger /leopard, lion, wild bull, rhino exist only in the these two core geographies. Big Game hunters in Africa (from the Desert Bloc, where else) described 5 animals as the Big 5 – elephants, lion, buffalo, leopard and the rhino as the Big Five. These were animals that were difficult to hunt and kill (for pleasure, if you thought otherwise).

This ‘pleasure’ was the operating principle. As a result of this ‘pleasure’, there are only two parts of the world where such Big Five exist. India and Africa. China, the Middle East and of course Europe and America, have wiped entire continents of all these animals.

Modern history, under a Hegelian spell has ignored Afro Group history. Bereft of spectacular structures, visible ‘leaders’ or the recent decline in fortunes, the study of African history has been decided as unimportant.

Indic systems

Based on भारत-तंत्र Bharattantra platform. Indic systems focus on four freedoms – काम kaam (desire, including sexual) अर्थ arth (wealth), मोक्ष moksh(liberty)and धर्मं dharma (justice), and stipulates unrestricted access to ज़र zar (gold), जन jan (people) and ज़मीन jameen (land).

Originating in India, based on platform of anti-slavery, distribution of power and diversity, this was the dominant ideology in the world till about 8th century. In Tibet, Songtsen Gampa, the 33rd king, became the first dharma-raja in 7th century – a follower of भारत-तंत्र Bharattantra . The Indic system has been in sharp retreat for the last 500 years – especially after Mughal rule in India. Inspite of sharp reversals in the last 500 years, half the world is still significantly influenced by Indic systems.

Militarily impregnable till about 17th century, Mughal rule established the first beachhead for the Desert Bloc in India.

Strong population growth based on widespread marital occurrence, strong and extensive family structures, are features that have sustained Indic systems in the society, even though some rulers defected to the Desert Bloc.

Indians worship every item of God's creation - not just cows. (Image source - Sri U.Ve. Prasanna Venkatachariar Chaturvedi Swamin)

Indians worship every item of God's creation - not just cows. (Image source - Sri U.Ve. Prasanna Venkatachariar Chaturvedi Swamin)

With diverse liturgical, beatification, sacramental practices, graded pantheism (local deities, semi-divine gods and goddesses with a top layer of the Holy Trinity), faith and belief do not occupy the space or importance that religion has in the Desert Bloc. These are within the realm of individual choice with scattered efforts at proselytization

The Indic system still has significant following in China and most of ASEAN region – notably Indonesia, Tibet, Cambodia, Thailand, Sri Lanka. The modern proof of this was the India Independence League (IIL) headed by Subhash Chandra Bose.

In recent times

Each of these megaliths have traditional spheres of influence.

Post-WWII world has been been seriously influenced by the Desert Bloc. The Desert Bloc split into two factions. The liberal-progressive, democratic, Judeo-Christian faction led by America. Significant parts of the world has moved to the Desert Bloc orbit, and adopted the religion of Westernization.

An interesting study is the post-WWII behaviour of the Euro-American faction. After WWII, as British, French and Dutch colonialists were being thrown out of Asia, in country after country, the West was in real danger of losing markets and raw material sources.

To make war palatable, Desert Bloc invented religion. (Image source - loonpond.com; artist attribution not available at image source)

To make war palatable, Desert Bloc invented religion. (Image source - loonpond.com; artist attribution not available at image source)

A new power, fueled by a growing migrant population, USA, took the place of tired, old powers – Britain, France and the Dutch. Instead of the openly-exploitative system of European powers directly running colonial governments in these Asian countries, the US installed an opaque system – which is equally exploitative. To impose its writ on the newly independent Asian countries, the US simply destroyed their  economies by war. The USA, then instituted the innovative USCAP Program and ‘helped’ these countries. These countries (Taiwan, Singapore, Japan, South Korea, Indonesia, Malaysia, et al) were now ruled by overtly independent regimes – but covertly, client states of the USA.

US multinationals and home-grown oligarchs (keiretsus, chaebols, etc.) took over the economy – and sidelined British, French and Dutch companies. To impose this economic model, US armies, using nearly 1 million troops, killed 50 lakh Asians. The takeover of European colonial possessions by the USA was handled over 3 regimes of Eisenhower-Kennedy-Johnson seamlessly.

Islamic units

The second faction is the Islamic faction. After the breakup of the Ottoman Empire, by the West, after WWI, new renegade groups supported by the West, sprang up. These renegade groups are using extremist  Islam to meld the Islamic faction into a more powerful factor in the global power equation.

Some of these Islamic regimes installed and supported by Western powers have been slowly drifting away from the West – like Turkey, Syria, Jordan, Iran, etc. Some other regimes are longer able to call the shots – like the Saud family, or the Iraqi regime.

The other aspect of the Islamic faction is the geographical spread. The primary Islamic region is the Arab region, centred around Middle East /West Asia region. The secondary Islamic region is the Central Asia – earlier a part of the Mongol Empire. Walled in by China and Japan on the East, by Russia on the West and diverse countries in the South, it is a shadow of its former self.

The region with the largest Islamic population is South and South East Asia – concentrated across India, Indonesia, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Malaysia. The South and South East Asia Islamic region has a moderate and non-imperial history.

Hence these three regions (Middle-East region, Central Asian region and South /SE Asian) have evolved differently and have little in common. Hence, the image of the Islamic ‘world’ as a monolithic unit is misleading.

Big trouble in Little China

The other puzzle is classifying China. China under Confucian State model was solidly in the Desert Bloc. After the advent of Buddhism, as the Chinese people became landholders, as they obtained rights to own silver and gold, they moved to Indic system. Marriage and family systems became the norm – instead of exception.

After and under Mongols, for instance the Kublai Khan restricted silver and gold rights – and issued fiat currency. The Chinese State has mostly been Desert Bloc in its tendency. But the Chinese people have great faith in their Buddhist teachers. Will China become a staunch Desert Bloc member like Iran in the past, is still possibly an open question.

Even stevens!

The Assyrian thread

With Niniveh, (also called Asshur) as its capital, the Assyrian Empire, ended in 600 BC. The Assyrian Empire passed through many hands – recreating and renewing itself in the same mould. The name, Assyrian Empire was a Roman modification of Asuristan - the area of current Iraq.

The  Achaemenid Empire (c. 550–330 BC) were the first successor power to preside over the Assyrian Empire, from their capital in Perspolis. Many wealthy Jews were envied for their vast slave holdings. Alexander ousted the Achaemenids to rule over the Assyrian Empire – effectively after the Battle at Gaugemela (331 BC). Daidochi Wars after Alexander’s death and attacks by Rome-Carthage alliance  led to the disintegration of Macedonian rule. Romans, added Western Europe, and ruled over the Assyrian Empire for the next 350 years (60 BC-285 AD), with its capital in Rome.

Rome formally lost the Assyrian Empire when Diocletian was forced to split Roman Empire in 285 AD. Eastern Roman Empire, well-known for its premier city, Byzantium (a cognate of Indian Vyjayanti) mostly had its capital in Constantinople (modern Istanbul) continued to gain power and wealth over the next 400 years.

Various Islamic dynasties (c.700-1300) ruled over large parts of the Assyrian Empire, with capitals mostly in Damascus, Baghdad, till they were deposed by Genghis Khan’s Mongols. After adding China, Mongol factions ruled over the Assyrian Empire for varying periods, between 1300-1600 AD over different parts of the Assyrian Empire.

It was the Mongols who helped in the rise of the West. First, was the trade in millions of slaves from Eastern Europe (the Slavs, hence slaves) by Venetian and Florentine traders, which funelled vast monies into European economies from Egyptian and Byzantine slave-buyers. This wealth from slave trade was the stuff of which tales are told. Shakespeare wrote of Merchant of Venice, Comedy of Errors, Gentlemen of Verona. Leonardo da Vinci,  architect Bramante, sculptor Donatello, Michelangelo, Titian and other famous artists found patrons with the earlier Visconti, powerful Medicis, notorious Borgias, lesser known Sforza (Milan), Pazzi and the Albizzi families. It was this slave-trade that fuelled Renaissance art and culture. Florence, Venice, Milan became major banking centres. Double-entry book keeping became standard, under which any kind of financial picture can be created. Quite unlike the Indian single-entry system.

Mongols brought to the West two major technologies. One, was the Indian decimal system and Indian saltpetre for gunpowder, was the other. Indian mathematics (initially outlawed by European rulers) is the foundation of Western science and technology. Indian gunpowder was their ticket to military power. Wealth from trade in African slaves, conquest, loot, annihilation of Native Americans, using gunpowder, fuelled a 500 year technology boom in the West.

The last significant dynasties that ruled over the ancient Assyrian Empire were Islamic Ottomans and the Christian Austro-Hungarian Empire. These two empires were dismantled after WW1 (1920) by Western allies.

Slavery rarely finds mention in Indian media. Much less is any discussion or understanding about the role of slavery in the rise of the West. A rare Indian columnist with awareness of the slavery factor. Even this discussion about clash of civilizations does not work.

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  1. [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Zoom Indian Media, Hindu IDF and St. PT Barnum, St. PT Barnum. St. PT Barnum said: Meshing and gnashing – The Clash of civilizations http://goo.gl/fb/qL7RX [...]

  2. Naras said, on February 17, 2011 at 6:59 am

    A nice summary of ideas and facts that you have been writing about for a long time. I also went through the cultural dacoity post, and spent my time glued to it! What a number of things you know and have pointed to. It is fascinating. Thanks.

  3. saurav said, on February 17, 2011 at 5:58 pm

    People forget that before the Samual Hungtington book, Demonization of Muslims had already started in the 80s in India. Opening up of gates of Babri Masjid, The over hyped verdict of Shah Bano case, Rajiv Gandhis covert support to Hindutva movement was instrumental to the rise of BJP in Indian politics……..BJP had won not more than 2 seats in 1984 and had become the largest opposition in 1989 (even before the Ram Janmabhoomi movement).

    And the bringing down of Babri Masjid was a feather in the cap and a propaganda by Hindutva parties saying that this was just a historical correction………..What a load of crap by Hindutva agents………..When in fact Hinduism WAS A MINORITY in numbers at one point in its history when Buddhiism almost had presence from Afghanistan to Kanyakumari and unleashing of Puranic books was the thing which saved Hinduism from extinction although it corrupted the religion.

    Anyway Hindutva concept of a Hindu nation is a joke. India was a multireligious nation for almost close to 2000 + years.

  4. lonepanther said, on February 18, 2011 at 5:53 am

    Excellent, Excellent post.

  5. Kaffir said, on February 19, 2011 at 5:46 am

    Does Islam really needs to be demonized by someone? Don’t its acts – historically as well as to this day – speak for itself? And as you mentioned, the demonization of Islam by the “west” is just a continuation of the infighting among the three desert cults.

    As for the African bloc, you have some good points, but then again, if we look at the demographics today, seems to me that most of Africa is either Christian or Muslim, indicating that the desert bloc has won. So, how has the African bloc been able to resist? Traditional African religions are a tiny minority today with little hope of their revival, whereas Islam and Christianity are the two dominant religions.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Africa

    So yes, while Soweto revolution is important, I’m at a loss to see its significance in the demographics of Africa today. Perhaps you could explain this point.

    Let’s take Haiti. The rebellion in 1790s was indeed very important, but if you look at the demographics of Haiti today, almost all the population is Christian.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Haiti

    Are you arguing that African Christians (or Christians of African descent, as in Haiti) are somehow different than Caucasian Christians?

    As for Cuba, it has been a dictatorship for the past 30 years, with little rights for citizens. So, big deal if it resisted the desert bloc – it just resisted one totalitarian ideology simply to accept another one (Communism). So, what exactly is your point in mentioning Cuba? I hope you don’t come up with a post on how the west has demonized Communism.

  6. Kaffir said, on February 19, 2011 at 5:57 am

    “In the very heart of the modern Desert Bloc – the USA, after centuries of slavery and discrimination, the Afro Group was able to roll back excesses.”
    _

    Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Christian preacher.
    El-Hajj Malik El-Shabazz, also known as Malcolm X, converted to Islam and was a Muslim minister.

    Both credited their faith in motivating their fight against racial discrimination. So, are you calling that Afro Group Afro based simply on the color of their skin and their ancestry?

  7. Anuraag Sanghi said, on February 20, 2011 at 7:35 am

    if we look at the demographics today, seems to me that most of Africa is either Christian or Muslim, indicating that the desert bloc has won. So, how has the African bloc been able to resist?

    African Christians (or Christians of African descent, as in Haiti) are somehow different than Caucasian Christians?

    In non-Arabic, sub-Saharan Africa, the heritage of Africa lives, co-exists, even after some of them ‘converted’ to Desert Bloc religion. The point of religion is not what you pray or what you say, but what you do.

    The use of religion to modify behaviour is what I am talking about. Indonesian Muslims who have a huge Gitopdesha sculpture in the middle of Jakarta and Saudi Arabian Muslims who refuse entry of personal, non-Islamic prayer material into the country is one such instance. The role of Christian missionaries in Africa using tribal identity to divide-and-convert has been the object of quite a few studies. You should study some of those to get a perspective.

    Religion is a non-sequitur. You can always find a line in religious books that will justify any thing you want.

    So, how has the African bloc been able to resist? Traditional African religions are a tiny minority today with little hope of their revival

    Africa resisted and survived. Native Americans, Australian aborigines could not. You are not hopeful. I am confident that Africa will beat back Desert Bloc.

    The sight of Jacob Zuma, a Zulu Chief, with his many wives, on world stage is an unnerving sight for the Desert Bloc in Africa (read this to get a flavor of Western nervousness http://goo.gl/mEofS). Don’t be in a hurry to write-off Africa. Not many have lived, like Africa has – lived to tell the tale.

    Soweto revolution is important, I’m at a loss to see its significance in the demographics of Africa today. Perhaps you could explain this point.

    Has there been a greater tale of courage? Are you telling me that Soweto did not turn the tide of Desert Bloc in Africa.

    if you look at the demographics of Haiti today, almost all the population is Christian.

    Is it? Christian America is afraid, very afraid of Haiti, even today. More than 200 years later.Read http://goo.gl/9erZb

    Cuba, it has been a dictatorship for the past 30 years

    You mean a one-party dictatorship instead of 2-party dictatorship like USA, UK, France, Germany etc. US govt. imprisons and kills more people than any other Government in the world. China is trying hard to match the USA.

    it just resisted one totalitarian ideology simply to accept another one (Communism).

    To use an Indic analogy, to fight Asuras, you have to use maya as well as Asuras do. Cuba’s use of communist maya is one such example.

    So, big deal if Cuba resisted the desert bloc

    I do hope you remember Cuban history, before you said this. I supplied a link on that. Are you saying that Cubans would have been better off as US slaves instead of poorer-free Cubans.

    You are using faulty colonial logic, of how the independent governments were no better than colonial-master-governments. Bad logic.

  8. Anuraag Sanghi said, on February 20, 2011 at 8:09 am

    Saurav – Responding to your observations.

    in fact Hinduism WAS A MINORITY in numbers at one point in its history when Buddhiism almost had presence from Afghanistan to Kanyakumari and unleashing of Puranic books was the thing which saved Hinduism

    I fundamentally disagree with your belief that Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Christianity and Judaism are all religions and equally meritorous. There are only 3 religions in the world – Islam, Christianity and Judaism. Buddhism did at some point come close to being a religion. Indians never did adopt any religion in large enough numbers.

    Demonization of Muslims had already started in the 80s in India.

    Indians have no knowledge of Demonization. In the Desert Bloc, genocides follow a four-step process.

    1.
    Caricature & Sterotypes – where people are lumped together and a negative image is created.

    2.
    Demonization – Jokes, cartoons, ‘studies’, books, texts are created to bolster Step1.

    3.
    Last Chance – Convert, join – or else.

    4.
    Genocide – Jews, American Natives, Australian Aborigines paid a price for this.

    Indians, have as yet, not learnt how to do this.

    80s in India. Opening up of gates of Babri Masjid, The over hyped verdict of Shah Bano case, Rajiv Gandhis covert support to Hindutva movement was instrumental to the rise of BJP in Indian politics.

    Your description of Indian politics in 1980s is not about Islamic Demonization – but a start of ending Muslim regression that started with loss of power in British Raj, self-imposed insularirty, ghettoization in India – to bring them into the Indian mainstream. An important pre-condition of that is shedding beliefs of religious superiority.

  9. Julian said, on May 31, 2011 at 6:33 pm

    “Driven more by accelerated creation and destruction, Desert Bloc sub-groups have short life spans (Achaemenid Iran, Greece, Rome, Mongol Empire). Greece, Rome, the Ummayyads, Abbasids, Mongolian Empire, Colonial Spain and Britain best represent the Desert Bloc.”

    What does Greece have to do with the “desert” bloc?

    Anyone with basic knowledge of Hindu thought can see the deep similarities between ancient Indian and Greek thought, for example between Panini and Euclid.

    “Pythagoras and bAdarAyaNa, Euclid and pANini, Democritus and kaNAda; thus they go along in resonance. Sadly, much of this missed in the modern world because somehow yavana thought has come to be termed “Western philosophy”, and is gazed upon by minds infected by the Abrahamistic memes. While on the other hand the Hindu makes no attempt to make an independent study of it.

    http://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2007/05/02/empedocles-and-vasishtha-agrigentum-and-mithila/

    http://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2005/09/26/hayastanika-samkhya-plato-etc/

    http://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2009/06/06/the-two-lakulin-s-arya-and-yavana/

    Mongol’s had nothing to do with any “desert” bloc but were worshippers of Tengri and played a very important role in crushing Islamic Jihad if only briefly and seen as a hope for the revival of Dharma by some Indians.

    Suggest you read:

    http://manasataramgini.wordpress.com/2011/05/20/some-notes-on-rashid-ad-din-bin-imad-ud-dawla-abul-khair-and-his-times/

  10. Anuraag Sanghi said, on June 1, 2011 at 5:06 am

    Mongol’s had nothing to do with any “desert” bloc but were worshippers of Tengri and played a very important role in crushing Islamic Jihad if only briefly and seen as a hope for the revival of Dharma by some Indians.

    Let me provoke to stimulate a different thought stream. You can be a Hindu and worship Jesus and praise Mohammed. Only when you start to enslave, torture, kill, maim, imprison, loot people in the name of Jesus and Mohammed that you become people of the Desert Bloc.

    If Africans follow Jesus, they are not part of Desert Bloc. Indonesian Muslims who have a huge Gitopdesha sculpture in the middle of Jakarta are not Muslims yet. But when they start killing – things change.

    What does Greece have to do with the “desert” bloc?

    Greeks were pure Desert Bloc – laws on legal tender, slavery, death for dissent (Socrates), imperial glorification, war for loot, slaves. Everything.Ditto for Mongols.

    Desert Bloc is not about worship, faith or talk. Actions will speak. It is actions that matter. Actions counts. Karma, you know.

    Anyone with basic knowledge of Hindu thought can see the deep similarities between ancient Indian and Greek thought, for example between Panini and Euclid.

    You are talking about The Greek Miracle some of which is covered by a 2ndlook post on Cultural Dacoity. The two embedded links will give you a 2ndlook on the Greeks.

  11. osudrania said, on October 5, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    I thought Vedic concepts aka Hinduism today are the oldest system in the world and it influenced the Greece and far beyond where with local variations, the well known Paganism aka pluralism of faith was practiced. Hindus were known to
    live even in the Desert bed. This reflects in the names like “Ramallah” in Israel today. Hindukush is a well known place but the entire Central Asia including the areas freed under USSR occupation were inhabited by people with Indian Vedic practices. But its message of peace, love, brotherhood have become obsolete in the modern invasive society where intolerance and hate have taken over these basic values. It is unfortunate.

    • Anuraag Sanghi said, on October 5, 2011 at 8:31 pm
      The fact that we use American technology like computers does not mean that we want to be a society like America.

      The fact that Greeks took some our language and literary technology did not make them Indian.


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